Re: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL

Aparently have not been following the thread. The dicsssion was about

> Tundra phony TV ads and their 10,000 towing ability. . If one is looking > to buy a truck with which to tow they can not buy a Ford equipped to tow > pack that does not have a V8. You are corect the six speed, is a late > option, not currantaly available

I agree with you that the new Tundra ads are deceptive. That is not an issue. In my post I was trying to correct all the errors you made regarding Ford trucks. Apparently you did not bother to read my post and you reposted more incorrect information regarding Ford trucks with the V-6.

I'll try to set you straight about the Ford one more time -

GO READ THE 2007 F150 ORDERING GUIDE - it definitely allows the Towing Package with the V-6 and a manual transmission. And if you use the Ford Website to build your F150, it will let you build one that way. Dealers don't order many of them that way, but they do occasionally. I had no trouble at all finding a manual transmission V-6 with the towing package in a dealers stock (VIN 1FTRF12237NA36871 at Beach Ford Inc., 2717 Virginia Beach Boulevard, Virginia Beach, VA). I had no problem finding a V-6 Automatic with the towing package either. How many VINs do you want me to post to prove your are wrong? For a normal person finding one should be enough to prove that you can order a V-6 Manual Transmission F150 with the towing package, but you don't seem to be able to admit it when you are wrong.

I also like the way you tried to cover your mistake in claiming the 2007 F150s got the six speed automatic. I assume available in the 2008 model counts as "late availability" in your mind. Wouldn't it have been easier to admit you were wrong about that as well?

And is the 4.5 V-8 a late availability option also?

Ed

mike > > Ford dealer Guide Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight (Lbs.) - Automatic > Transmission > > Engine Axle Ratio GCWR (Lbs.) 126 - > inch wheel base 144.5 - inch wheel base > 4.2L SEFI V6 3.55 10000 5200 5100 > (trailer tow package requires 4.6L V8) > 4.6L Triton® SEFI V8 3.55 11500 6600 - 6200 > 5.4L Triton® 3-valve SEFI V8 3.55 13000 8000 - 7700 > > (All Ford trucks since the late eignties have required an automatic tranny > if the TT option was added). > > Trailer tow package > > Includes Class IV trailer hitch receiver, 7-pin wiring harness, upgraded > radiator and upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler (requires 4.6L or > 5.4L Triton® V8); aux. trans. oil cooler only with 4.2L V6 A/T > > " > > > mike > > > >> No so, all F150s with the trailer tow package have the 4.6 V8 standard. >> >> mike > > But not all F150s have the Trailer Tow Package. And no F150 come with > a 4.5 V8. > > You said "The F150 has a six speed and a V8 is standard as well." This > is an incorrect statement since neither a V-8 or a six speed > transmission is standard (and the six speed transmission isn't even an > option). And your revised statement is also incorrect. Go to >
formatting link
> and build an F150. Selecting the Trailer Tow Package does not reuire > the V-8 or an automatic transmission. And finally, Ford doesn't offer > a 6 speed transmission in the 2007 F150 (they do in the 2007 > Expedition). > > The following information was clipped directly from the 2007 Ford F150 > Ordering Guide: > > ------ > > TRAILER TOW PACKAGE (535) > Usage: Required for towing over 5,000 lbs. > Availability: > · All F-150 units > Includes: > · Class IV trailer hitch receiver > · 7-pin wiring harness > · Upgraded radiator & upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler [req. > 4.6L V8 > (99W), 5.4L 3V V8 (995) or 5.4L 3V V8 FFV(99V) engine; auxiliary > transmission oil cooler only w/4.2L V6 A/T (992/44Q)] > Optional Equipment: > · Heavy duty 72-amp battery (59H) [incl. when ordered w/both Satellite > Radio > (91S) & Rear Seat Entertainment System (915)] > > ------ > > Notice that the Trailer Tow Package is availale with all F150 Units. > Also notice that it includes an "auxiliary transmission oil cooler > only w/4.2L V6 A/T" Please admit that the trailer tow package is > available with the 4.2L V-6. > > As for the Powertrain Options: > > ----- > > POWERTRAIN > 4.2L EFI V6/5-Spd. Manual O/D > 4.2L EFI v6/4-Spd. Auto O/D > 4.6L EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D > 5.4L 3V EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D > 5.4L 3V EFI V8 FFV/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D > > ----- > > Ed > >> >> >> >> > >> >> Get real. Ford is the Silverado competition not the Tundra. Ford >> >> sells >> >> 35% >> >> of the full-size trucks in the US. Chevy 30% and Toyota a measly 5%. >> >> The >> >> base engine in the Tundra is a only a V6. The F150 has a six speed >> >> and a >> >> V8 >> >> is standard as well. The Tundra is just beginning to catch up to the >> >> build >> >> quality of what GM, Ford and Dodge have been offering in their truck >> >> for >> >> years >> >> >> mike >> >> > Mike, >> >> > Actually Ford and Chevrolet also have standard V-6s in their half ton >> > pickup trucks. When I was shopping for a pickup last year it was much >> > easier to find a V-6 F150 than a V-6 Tundra. There was not a single >> > V-6 Tundra on any of the local lots for me to test drive. V-6 F150 >> > were easy to fiind. >> >> > Ed- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >
Reply to
C. E. White
Loading thread data ...

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:13:38 GMT, "C. E. White" wrote:

No where near as despective as some of detriots tow ratings. I am not pro toyota here but Detriot uses no science with its ratings and Ford inflated their max 1/2 ton ratings because of Yota but the facts are it does not have near the power than the yota does. If you do the math and factor is axle ratio, rated torque and RPM, and transmision ratios, the Yota beats them all is actal drawbar or pulling power. It takes power to move the load, not a inflated rating. Be glad there is a Toyota because Detriot will be forced to improve their trucks against it and consumers will get a better product in the end. Toyota has their act together with the new Tundra with a 5.7 and a 6 speed and they even spaced the tranny ratios properly to best apply power to load (you can hit torque peak in the first three gears by 58 MPH in it at 24, 41 and 58 MPH respecably vs 32 ,54 and 85 MPH for Ford, 39, 65 and 96 MPH for GM 6.0 Vortec max and 33, 60 and 99 MPH for Dodge Hemi. Not only does the Toyota have more usable and effective gearing to get load moving, it also has more torque as well to apply to those gears so it is simple physics here. The Yota has the greatest mechanical advantage over the load via gearing and availble power so it will pull a load better than any of them. Kinda a like comparing a small guy with a pry bar against a big guy with a bigger pry bar try to move something. The Yota has the bigger guy (more torque) and the longer bar (better effective gearing) so the end result is quite predicable before you even hitch it up to a load. The scary part is that the Yota actaully has more true towing/pulling power to move a load than all new gas powered 3/4 and 1 ton trucks if you do the math since GM no longer has the 8.1 and the Hemi is no tow king. A Ford V10 would be the only one to likley meet of exceed it. (we are talking actual towing power that can be aplied to load not weather it is a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton chassis) Given the math behind the new Tndra, if they go into the 3/4 and 1 ton market Detriot better get their act together because if Yota can make a 1/2 ton that can pull that hard just think of what they could do with a 3/4 ton or bigger.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Reply to
SnoMan

It is not the going that bothers me, it is the stopping....

If I wanted to tow a heavy load, I would go for an F250/F350. They also have a six speed transmission. Ford/GM/Dodge all have 3/4 and 1 ton trucks for people that actually need to tow 10,000 lbs. Toyota is not trying to create that distinction i.e., they don't have a separate Tundra HD model to compete with the F350/350 or Silverado HD. If you want to compare the Tundra to other trucks capable of towing heavy loads, then I contend you must compare it to the heavy duty pick-ups from Ford, GM, and Dodge. And if you want to limit your discussion to big "gas" engines, then here are the engine comparisons:

Tundra - 5.7L V-8 - 381 hp @ 5600 rpm 401 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm F250 - 6.8L V-10 - 362 hp @ 4750 rpm 457 lb. -ft @ 3250 rpm Silverado HD2500 6.0L V-8 - 367 hp @ 5500 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4300 rpm Dodge 2500 - 345 hp @ 5400 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4200 rpm

For towing I would contend that torque is more important that horsepower -especially horsepower at 5600 rpm. Which engine would you rather have to tow a heavy load? The one with 401 lb.-ft of torque at

3600 rpm, or the one with 457 lb.- ft of torque at 3250 rpm? F250s also have a six speed automatic transmission and offer a variety of rear gear ratios? So if you wanted to tow a heavy load, which truck would be the better choice?

As an aside - I run a small farm and raise cattle (I sell around 20 claves a year to the feeder calf market). I can't justify owning a HD truck and cattle trailer for my 1 or 2 trips to the sale a year, so I hire one of my neighbors to do it for me. He has a fifth wheel cattle trailer that can haul 20 to 25 calves at a time (figure around 9,000 lbs of cattle + the trailer). Until this year he has always used an F250 with a diesel to pull the trailer. When he moved some cattle for me earlier this year, he had a new F350. I assumed it was a diesel. I was curious how the "new" powerstroke diesel performed compared to the older versions. I started asking him about the truck and he was very positive. Said it pulled really well and that he really liked the engine except the fuel economy was not as good. This confused me because I though the new diesels were supposed to be better. When I mentioned this, he just laughed. He explained he didn't get a diesel. His new truck had a 5.4L V-8. He said it had plenty of power and towing the trailer was not a problem at all. It was his opinion than even the V-10 was overkill and the expensive diesel option was completely unnecessary.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

One more thing - The list price for a stripped F250 V-10 six speed automatic is less than the price for a stripped Tundra 5.7L V-8 six speed automatic even before the $3000 rebate on the F250 is figured in.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Maxwell House is cheaper than edible coffee.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Go check their web site.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Where did you find the gear ratios for the above trucks and do you have them for the Nissan Titan? Did you ever see a Dodge Mega Cab 1500? The 06 is a full 3/4 ton truck disguised as a 1/2 ton.

Just wondering....

Al

Reply to
Big Al

BTW: GMC is still showing the 8.1 as an option??

Al

Reply to
Big Al

As quoted directly for the Ford Dealer Order Guide What part of, "Trailer Tow Package" includes Class IV trailer hitch receiver, 7-pin wiring harness, upgraded radiator and upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler (requires

4.6L or 5.4L Triton® V8); aux. trans. oil cooler only with 4.2L V6 A/T, did you not understand?

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Ford knows what their trucks are worth....

It turns out Toyota is worth more if they sell for more.

People tend to buy the best tool for the job.

Reply to
Scott in Florida

Unlike you, I did:

Engine, , Vortec 8.1L V8 SFI, (330 hp [245.8 kW] @ 4200 rpm, 450 lb-ft of torque [607.5 N-m] @ 3200 rpm) (L18) $950.00

Right from the GMC website. The Duramax is $6030 now!

Al

Reply to
Big Al

Dummy, Your're supposed to drink the coffee not eat it!!!!!!!! (Just joking)/

DaveD

Reply to
Dave and Trudy

Yes. Unlike me. Be your own secretary.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Right. And the Impala should be compared to the Lexus ES 460.

It's a half-ton. Compare it to the half-tons.

I see that Toyota has more torque and more horsepower than the GM and Dodge

3/4 ton pickups, outclassed only by a Ford V-10. And probably that giant Navistar diesel engine, which is a $6K option.

I wonder which gasser gets better fuel economy? Hmm... Ford, GM and Dodge don't appear to have supplied fuel economy figures to Edmunds. Perhaps that answers my question.

Reply to
DH

No wonder you have a spare bedroom:)

Reply to
Big Al

Toyota buyer do not understand trucks. Look at the hugh differance in the RPMs at which the HP and torque is acheved. That is why the Ford will drag the Tundra backward all over the lot in a Tug of War

Tundra - 5.7L V-8 - 381 hp @ 5600 rpm 401 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm F250 - 6.8L V-10 - 362 hp @ 4750 rpm 457 lb. -ft @ 3250 rpm

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

I'd like to know what you think you're commenting on...

[quote] I see that Toyota has more torque and more horsepower than the GM and Dodge 3/4 ton pickups, outclassed only by a Ford V-10. And probably that giant Navistar diesel engine, which is a $6K option. [end quote]

Or do you think that "Ford" is sometimes spelled "GM" or "Dodge?"

However, as long as you're at it...

Yes, let's. Oooh... Looks like Toyota has a major advantage in lower-end torque over the GM and Dodge products.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Bill Ford and Alan Mullaly should be thankful that Toyota hasn't introduced a V-10.

...yet.

Reply to
DH

Y'know... I looked up F250 pricing on Edmunds and I was astonished to find that the V10 option was a mere $600.

I suppose I should presume that Ford knows what they're doing with option pricing but that seems awfully low. I can't help but think that they could make an extra $400 (or more profit) by marking up that V10 option a bit. I would expect someone looking at the fuel economy of a V10 can't be anywhere near as much price-sensitive as they are determined to get a LOT of power.

Do you think they're leaving money on the table or do you think that most V10 purchases are simply... "well, as long as you have one in stock and it's only a few hundred more..."?

Reply to
DH

LMFAO, now that is funny....

Reply to
My Name Is Nobody

If you like the Toyota so much, and love pumping money into japan's economy, dont let the door hit you where the sun dont shine on the way out.

I do notice Toyota aint doing so well in the Nextel series. Waltrip cant get qualified, and Dale Jarrett is burning up his provisionals to get on the track..

Whitelightning

Reply to
Whitelightning

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.