3800 Gen II vs. Gen III

I was perusing the Buick and Pontiac sites today, specifically comparing the LeSabre vs. the Grand Prix.
I noticed that the Buick has a series II 3800 while the Pontiac has
the series III 3800.
Any idea why? I would have thought GM would have standardized on the series III by now so I'm puzzled.
Anyone know of the similarities and differences between the two engines?
If it's too much to list, any idea on a link that explains it? I googled, but I didn't find anything.
Also, opinions from you guys on which engine would be better in areas like power output, reliability, longevity given the same maintenance, etc?
I really want to stick with a vehicle with a GM 3800 since I've heard so many good things about the 3800 in here such as Harry Face's Bonny (and the fact that I have over $3k in GM card earnings).
Oh, and please don't mention the Chevy Impala. I refuse to buy something that looks like that and is called a "Chevy Impala." Blasphemy if ever there was! :)
Thanks tons for any info, and sorry if I asked any dumb questions!
Rick
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How about considering ( oops ) the 2006 Impala SS ? New body, new V8. 5.3 litre, 303 HP and 335 TQ. FWD Zooooooom!
The 2005, 3800's are rated at :
LeSabre - 205 HP @5200, 230 TQ @4000
GP - 200 HP @ 5200, 230 TQ @ 4000
Park Ave & Bonneville - Same as above. LaCrosse - Same as above
Just for the record, Monte / Impala 200 HP @5200, 225 TQ @ 4000
LeSabre - 3567 pounds. GP - 3477 pounds. Monte - 3340 pounds. Impala ( oops ) - 3465 pounds. Bonneville - 3590 pounds.
I have not raised the hood on any of the 2005 cars with 3800's, but the 05 LaCrosse Catalogue boast of a " stiffer die cast aluminum intake manifold." Maybe other models also have aluminum intake manifolds.
I'd kind of figure the realiabilty & maintenance would be the same on all models I've listed. Power output would be about the same per model. Accelration a millisecond faster in the GP due to lower weight, ( possible axle ratio differences ) but would the consumer even notice any difference?
Some engine compartments may be a bit cramped. The Park Ave I rented didn't have the dog bones in the front of the engine like the midsize cars. Bonneville has the battery under the back seat to give more room under the hood.
Do you need a new car?
========Harryface ======== 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~297,834 miles_~_~_
~_~_~_~_U.S.A._~_~_~_~_~_
~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:09:20 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Harry Face) wrote:

Hmm... Sounds very interesting! I'll be on the lookout for that one.
<snip of great info>

Not yet. The ol' 96 Beretta with the 3.1L is still moving fine at 129k miles, but I fear a sudden catastrophic event. I'm just kinda keeping my eyes open in case the worst should happen.
Thanks for the great info, HF!
Rick
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The series 3 has the new metal intake while the series 2 does not.
Rutger6559 wrote:

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Metal intake to solve gasket leak problem?

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The problem was the EGR gasses melted part of the plastic intake around the EGR valve or something along those lines.
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wrote:

Thanks very much!
Rick
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Anyone know if it's possible to retrofit a series II with the new metal inake?

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The 3800 in the new 05 LaCrosse is supposed to have an aluminum intake
========Harryface ======== 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~298,984 miles_~_~_
~_~_~_~_U.S.A._~_~_~_~_~_
~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan
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Series II
2005 Model Year Summary
a.. New front and rear crankshaft seals b.. New oil pan sealing c.. New intake manifold sealing gaskets d.. New throttle body gasket material e.. New shrouded-tip Motec-2 fuel injectors f.. New fuel rail assembly to accommodate above injectors
FRONT AND REAR CRANKSHAFT SEALS
The 3800 Series II has new front and rear crankshaft seals made from the advanced polymer, polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE). PTFE's excellent sealing capabilities, as well as its ability to withstand thermal cycles, makes it a superior material for gaskets.
OIL PAN SEAL
To enhance the engine's solid long-term reputation, the 3800 Series II now uses an advanced RTV sealer with silicone for improved sealing.
INTAKE MANIFOLD AND THROTTLE BODY GASKETS
The 3800 Series II V-6 continues to improve because of detail-oriented changes. In 2004, the use of Hydrogenated Nitrile Butadiene Rubber (HNBR) for gaskets was introduced. The material is known for its physical strength and retention of properties after long-term exposure to heat, oil and chemicals. Various amalgams of HNBR are now being used for the intake manifold and throttle body gaskets of the L36.
SHROUDED-TIP MOTEC-2 FUEL INJECTORS
Fuel quality, fuel system maintenance, environmental factors and vehicle age can all work together to clog fuel injectors. The new shrouded-tip injectors help stave off clogging by protecting the orifice of the fuel injector with a sleeve-like cover. The orifice is recessed within the shroud, making it much more difficult for byproducts of the combustion cycle to clog the injector opening.
http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/whats%20new/90%20Degree%20V6%203800/PWT_2005%20L36A.doc
Series III
3800 Series III 3.8L V-6 (L26)
2005 Model Year Summary
a.. Super Ultra-Low Emissions rating (SULEV) b.. Bending braces for powertrain c.. Structural cast aluminum oil pan d.. New oil pan sealing e.. New front and rear crankshaft seals f.. New intake manifold sealing gaskets g.. New throttle body gasket material Here are the key features of the 3800 Series III:
a.. PO5 POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) The new P05 PCM provides state-of-the-art electronic engine management in the 3800 Series III. The PO5 has 50-percent more random access memory (RAM) than the previous-generation P04, twice as much read only memory (ROM) and a 60-percent increase in clock speed (approximately 25 MHz). It allows more integration of powertrain and vehicle systems, such as electronic traction control and heating, ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) operation and it provides more sophisticated diagnostics, particularly for the Onboard Refueling Vapor Recovery (ORVR) system. Moreover, it takes full advantage of new features such as the ultra-fast oxygen sensors and electronic throttle control.
a.. ELECTRONIC THROTTLE CONTROL (ETC) The 3800 Series III features electronic "drive-by-wire" throttle control. With ETC, there is no mechanical link between the accelerator pedal and the throttle. A potentiometer at the gas pedal measures pedal angle and sends a signal to the throttle actuator controller (TAC) module, which is integrated in the throttle body and passes the signal to the powertrain control module (PCM). The PCM then directs an electric motor to open the throttle at the appropriate rate. ETC delivers outstanding throttle response and greater reliability than a mechanical throttle. Cruise control functions are integrated into the throttle control, reducing the number of engine parts and simplifying assembly.
ETC utilizes multiple throttle curves to achieve more immediate - and appropriate - engine response over the full range of driving situations. The benefits are most obvious over 20 mph, where the Series III's ETC delivers power in a much more linear fashion than a mechanical linkage, with immediate response and virtually no peaks or valleys.
a.. POWDERED METAL CONNECTING RODS The 3800 Series III has new hot-forged powdered metal connecting rods. Powdered metal is more durable and reliable than conventional cast iron, delivering greater anticipated life. As importantly, the powdered metal rods are stiffer than the cast iron parts they replace.
a.. RETURNLESS FUEL INJECTION The 3800 Series III is equipped with a "returnless" fuel injection system that eliminates fuel return lines between the engine and the gasoline tank. Because it delivers only the amount of fuel need by the injectors, and returns no fuel to the fuel tank, the returnless system essentially eliminates heat transfer from the engine to the fuel tank. This reduces the amount of vapor generated in the tank, and captured by the Onboard Refueling Vapor Recovery (ORVR) system.
a.. DAMPOLATOR VIBRATION BALANCER Because of their cylinder configuration, 90-degree V-6 engines can create torsional vibration in the crank - essentially flexing along the length of the crankshaft-at certain engine speeds. The Series III Dampolator delivers the benefits of both a damper (at higher engine speeds) and isolator (at lower engine speeds). This computer-tuned crank balancer consists of two separate discs with two rubber springs of different thickness. It is effective at both ends of the rpm range and as a result, reduces vibration and harshness regardless of engine speed.
a.. DIRECT-MOUNT AIR CONDITIONING COMPRESSOR The air conditioning compressor bolts directly to the 3800 Series III's engine block, without struts or braces. This direct mounting considerably reduces vibration at the compressor and contributes to the overall reduction in noise, vibration and harshness.
http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/whats%20new/90%20Degree%20V6%203800/PWT_2005%20L26A.doc
Intake manifold: cast aluminum lower
composite upper (L36) aluminum upper (L26)
Exhaust manifold: high silicon molybdenum
cast nodular iron (left)
tubular stainless steel (right)
(L36 is the Series II, L26 is Series III)
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On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:59:17 -0600, "Phillip Schmid"

<snip of awesome info!>
Many thanks for that!
If I may ask, how in the world did you find that? Are you some google guru? I am constantly amazed at how some people can get exact info when I can't find anything!
Many thanks again, and I bow in the presence of your info finding greatness. :)
Rick
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Thanks. I remember maybe a year ago I went to a website ( www.gminsidenews.com for anyone curious ) and they had a link that went to something at media.gm.com and I liked what I saw so I started to look around some more on the website. It's a pretty handy website. Glad to help you out though.
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