Another Bad Sales Month for GM, Other US Manufacturer Ford :-(

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On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:23:32 -0500, "James C. Reeves"

Ford of a Mazda (same thing really)
The Malibu Maxx is not a wagon in my book...it's a sedan with an extended roof line that makes the car look like they ran out of sheetmetal during assembly.
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snipped-for-privacy@spam.com says...

AMC Gremlin for the 21st century? LOL
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Dennis Smith
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Both people I know who had Gremlins had great cars, would that they were Grems for the 21st!
The 72 AMC Ambassador Brougham that I had was among the best cars I've ever had. Nothing like a car with a queen size bed built into the front/rear lay down seats, and the 360 V8 burned rubber in all 3 gears...
Wir welle bleiwe wat mir sin (Letzebuergesch)
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wrote: | | >>For those in this forum that are in the market. What will it take for you to | >>consider a new GM vehicle? What does GM need to do to get you to buy? | Design and build a proper station wagon. They've got 3 years or I get a | Ford of a Mazda (same thing really) | | The Malibu Maxx is not a wagon in my book...it's a sedan with an | extended roof line that makes the car look like they ran out of | sheetmetal during assembly.
I tend to agree. Although they seem to have made some nice improvements to the Malibu, generally (from what I've read, anyway). It is a little curious...wonder how much real space gain there is to the "Maxx" version over the sedan version? Hmmm....
I wonder if Dodge's new Magnum model (coming out soon) is closer to the traditional rear-drive HEMI V8 "wagon" design or not? If so, might be worthwhile for GM to keep tabs on the Magnum sales numbers...the consumer may be interested in a "wagon" again...GM should be in that space if so...
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I am surprise GM only see 2% drop in sale. 0% finance will not help to improve sale as much as they would like to see. I have three GM cars (mini van and cars) I bought the mini van about 9 years ago and quite happy with the 3.8L engine. Bought another one, this time is family sedan with 3.8L engine. Also quite happy with it. Wife decide to buy a newer GM car (smaller car). We have checked and tested VW, Cadillac Catera, Toyota and Volvo products but decide to go with GM because of the price and service network within North America. Once again, we were lucky that no major problem yet. We told our friends that we would continue to purchase GM so they decide to buy GM product, but no luck to them. The have problem is with coolant/gasket. They bought a Grand Prix 1998 and a Bonneville 1997. Both cars have coolant problem (one with dex-cool and one with intake gasket). So, we decide to write an email to GM to ask them for help. No help from GM. we're disappointed with GM that they are fully aware of the problem with the engine coolant/gasket but not able to help them. My other friend (the smart one) said to me many times that Toyota is the best for engine/vehicle reliability. He decide to buy Siena mini van 1999. He had problem with transmission. Toyota replaced free of charge even when the warranty has expired.
So the point is that the only way GM would increase annual sell is to increase consumer confident level. It is start by satisfied customers. Right now GM has too many open issues with customers that they don't want to hear from their loyal costumers. As for my friends, well they have made their mind that GM would be their last vehicle for a while. I am sure other people from this news group would agreed with me. GM must look after people with intake gasket problem (all engines) and that it is! It is a design problem. There are people who is currently own GM are concern about the intake gasket. Why should they? Address those concerns and GM will earn consumer confident back. So GM, please contact your dealers and advise them to look after consumers now.
Regards, Paul
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Have you ever considers the fact that those USED cars you buy may have not been abused, or not properly maintained, by the previous owner(s)? Perhaps you would have a different few of a manufactures products if you bought one new on occasion?
mike hunt
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Someone has asked the question recently in Pontiac newsgroup that should he consider buy Aztech or not. Perhaps you should read it and see it for yourself. What should GM do in that case? a/ assuring the one who bought the car will remain happy with their decision? How should GM do that? provide update part to correct the problem free of charge may be to say we sorry? or provide free replacement or labor by authorize dealers and cap this open service time to whatever seem appropriate to consumer. Cost for this is much smaller than advertising for your new model. b/ we are sorry about it and hope that you come back for other car or truck? Won't work. The damage has already been done. c/ It is your fault that your engine is vehicle is failed prematurely.
Don't get me wrong that I am saying this because I don't like GM.

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Excuses Excuses Excuses.
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The US companies have for the most part continued to fall behind the power curve of competitive reality.
Korea is eating up the low price market.
Toyota is gaining everywhere and attacking on all fronts.
Nissan is picking up the market for edgy designs and rear wheel drive performance cars.
Honda has become a player in minivans, SUVS and soon pickup truck-lites.
GM at least has a couple of hit products on it's hands as well as a lot of also rans.
Ford has the F150 and .... well, nothing.
Chrysler is flailing about trying to figure out who and what it is while releasing funky little niche vehicles and neglecting to be a leader in any of the mainstream vehicle categories.
All in all things continue to look grim for Detroit Inc. GM is probably doing the best overall job of the big 2.5, but that is not saying much.
Toyota is the global car company which most thoroughly has it's act together and they are gaining momentum by the day.
John
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What you says is basically true but you are referring to percentages, not total sales numbers.. Toyotas divisions are indeed growing in the US market. However GM still outsells Ford, Ford still outsells DC and DC still outsells Toyota in the US by millions of vehicles. Toyota is doing great in car sales, the Camry is number one, but they fall far behind in trucks. The growing market in the US is in light truck and SUV sales, not cars. Ford 'F Series' alone outsells all of Toyotas vehicles combined and GM's combined Chevy and GMC truck sales are greater than Fords. The number one selling vehicle in the US is the F150 at nearly twice the Camry sales. Both GM and Chryslers trucks outsell the Camry as well, in hugh numbers. Your are correct about up and coming Nissan, but they are more a threat to Toyota and particularly Honda, who is trying to make trucks on car chassis, than GM or Ford. There are buyers in the US that will not even consider buying a domestic over an import and the other way around. There are far more domestic intenders than import intenders, if you look at TOTAL vehicle sales for each manufacture.. Six or seven of the top selling vehicles in the US are light trucks and the top ten or so account for the bulk of new vehicle sales annually in the US.
mike hunt
John Horner wrote:

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What I said was that Toyato is gaining everywhere, which is true both inside the US and outside the US and that Toyota is attacking all market segments.
You are correct that the US brands still lead in the all important pickup and SUV markets, but their market share is shrinking in those segments as well. The slide of US brand market share has been the big US vehicle market story for 30 years now and the story has not changed. They continue to slide.
The view that the vehicle buying market segments into "import intenders" and "domestic intenders" is a short sighted view which becomes less and less valid with each passing day. In the past 20 years I've bought US, European and Japanese brands depending on what I thought suited me at the time.
I am active in our local Antique Automobile Club of America. Most of the members are significantly older than me and have been life long fans of one of the particular US brands. Yet over the past two years I've seen the life long Ford, Mopar and Chevy folks quietly buying Toyotas and Hondas for their everyday cars.
Detroit still doesn't get it after all these years. Spotty quality and letting designs get long of tooth are still the rule rather than the exception.
John

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You certainly are entitled to your opinion, but one sees a lot of foreign cars on the domestic dealers used car lots.. The fact remains Toyota is still a distant third in the US, the worlds largest market by far, although on Ford worldwide to within 2 million .. I have been in the corporate fleet service business for many years and from what we see EVERY manufacturer today is building good reliable vehicles compared to just five years ago. The only REAL difference in today's vehicles is style and price. The so called superiority of Japanese vehicles is more myth than fact based on what we see. We service just about every brand on the market and keep extensive maintenance and repair records. I can assure you THEY ALL break down, on occasion, both domestic and foreign. We see plenty of Toyotas and Honda with bad engines and trannys, as well as brake and electrical problems, just like every other manufacture. Unlike rental car companies whose vehicles are their 'product,' the corporate fleets vehicles are another 'tool' used in their business, like a computer or a lathe and they look at the OVERALL cost effectiveness of acquiring, maintaining and using that 'tool' for many years. Because of deprecation schedules in the tax laws corporate fleets generally keep their vehicles for five years or 300K WOF, longer than the US new cars buyers average three or four years or 45 to 60K. All manufactures try to sell to corporate fleets and they all offer the same $400 to $600 fleet discount. The reason fleets do not use more foreign vehicles is they have determined over the past years that Ford vehicles are the most costs effective to acquire, insure, maintain, repair and replace than any other brand, period. As long as we are expressing our personal opinions, I sell my vehicles every two years and buy another new vehicle, it was what I saw in this business that has saved me thousands of dollars by switching from Honda, Toyota and most recently Lexus to Ford products and I own a large block of GM stock.. To each his own, it's your money spend it were you wish, I could not car less. ;)
mike hunt
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And yet, a manufacturer will sell cars with a known engine problem. ( Buick 3.1 l. V-6 ) and continue doing it for several model years !
How many of these auto buyers will get "burned", and say "never again" to GM products.
At times it seems that American companys are out to make "this" sale. While the Japanese auto makers are in for "the long haul".
<rj>
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:57:29 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

<rj>
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On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:57:29 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

This is a repost that I made some time ago but I think it's relevent to this thread...... ............................................................................................................. After driving for 50 years perhaps our worst car was a 66 Beetle. It seemed to need constant repairs of one kind or another. Also it was very poorly designed for N. American driving conditions.
Our other worst vehicle was a 74 chevy pickup that was a rust bucket by the time it had only 40000 miles on it. Clutch problems, carb problems, and a poor winter starter. We had to junk it at 70000 miles.
We have had four really trouble free cars over the years.
1 Buck Centurys 94 and 02 (we still have the 02) 2 Mazda 84 probably the most trouble free vehicle we ever had. 3 91 Subaru 4wd which we still have. The body seems to be poorly made but the drive train has been very trouble free. 3 Honda Accord 94-my wife's car which she still has.
All the above cars were bought new.
We both bought new cars in 94 the Buick for me and the Honda for my wife. Interestingly over the years we have found no real difference between the Buick and the Honda as far as trouble free operation is concerned.
However we have found the Buicks to be a much better designed for our kind of driving than the Honda (Rural winter driving, gravel roads, many highway miles, and few city miles). The Buick is much better on snow and ice and parts are far more available and much much cheaper than the Honda. Also we have found the Buick to be a much more comfortable car (quieter, smoother, better AC, heater, defroster, seating position, room etc). Also in spite of the Buick being a V6 and the Honda a Four there is no real practical difference in mileage except that for Highway cruising the Buick actually gives us slightly better mileage.
So after having British, German, Jap and American cars We have been, overall, most satisfied with the Buicks. I know it goes against the conventional wisdom but that has been our experience for what it's worth.
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Our 61, 66, 73 and 76 Bugs were among the best cars I think we've owned...

The thing is, take any vehicle and you'll find people who had nary a problem and love them and those who had nothing but problems and hate them...
Wir welle bleiwe wat mir sin (Letzebuergesch)
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That is great comparison. Just curious, which Buick model you have and engine type?
wrote:

.................................
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Both Buicks were/are Centuries with the 3.1 V6. We replaced the 94 Century with a 02 Century in Jan of 02 when the 94 rolled over in a snow storm and was totaled. At that time it had about 130000 miles on it and was running just fine.
The only problems we had with the 94 was some front end work to get rid of some minor shaking (not surprising when you consider the kind of roads we have) and a failed fuel pump. Both cost about 250 dollars US. The dealer said the fuel pump may have failed because we had never replaced the fuel filter which would have caused excessive fuel pressure for the fuel pump to handle.
When we replaced it we seriously considered replacing it with a Buick La Sabre. We drove a La Sabre loaner for a few days and came to the conclusion that, while a very nice car, it just didn't give us all that much more than a Century considering the price differential.
The 94 Honda Accord has also been more or less trouble free. Over the years, however, we find we use it less and less. The Honda compared to the Buick has the personality of a compact and the Buick more like a full size car. The seats are very close to the floor compared to the Buicks. We find the high chair like seats of the Buicks much more comfortable and natural. The Honda has a tight claustrophobic feeling compared to the Buicks. The most obvious difference is the noise level. Compared to the Honda the Buicks are tomb-like in their silence. We can actually listen to the radio on the Buicks at freeway speeds and carry on a normal conversation without yelling-something we can't do on the Honda. So as far as real world day to day practical transportation the Centuries are far better designed than the Accord for us at least.
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