Another sign of GM's desperation

Page 4 of 6  
On Sat, 26 May 2007 18:31:25 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Do you think that the team with the lower score in the first quarter is winning? Do you think that the company that sold fewer cars in the first quarter "still sells more cars" than the one that sold more? LOL, yourself.
At best, GM is about tied with Toyota. Everyone knows that Toyota is going to pass GM. It looks like it will be this year, but if not then it will be next year. It is entirely possible that there will never be another quarter where GM outsells Toyota.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

They've already outsold GM:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18286221/from/ET /
*snip rest*
You're conversing with a resident troll, BTW.
Natalie
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You are confusing US sales with international sales that include markets in which GM does not operate. GM out sells all other Manufactures in the US, domestic or imports
mike
wrote:

.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike Hunter wrote:

Guess what Mike, the whole world matters to a business, not just the USofA.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The is true but largest market in the world in the US market, Europe is second. GM outsells Toyota in the US by huge numbers and Toyota is not even a close third in Europe, where they do not have the state and local government subsidies, or the huge federal tax advantage, they have here in the US.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike Hunter wrote:

If the Michigan 3 were to open new plants, they would get state and local government subsidies, too.

Actually, if they don't pay taxes in the US, Toyota and Honda have to pay a higher federal tax rate in Japan. The Toyota and Honda subsidies are US companies (even though they are fully own by a foreign company) and have to pay US, state and local taxes, just like any other US company.
If I am incorrect, please prove it, just like you proved that the first digit of the VIN has to do with US content.

Yeap, the US tax rate is lower than the Japanese tax rate.
Jeff

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I think Mike preferes the term " cheerleader " No matter how badly the team is doing, he is standing on the sidelines trying to ralley the troups.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The sad aspect of Mikes' posts is that there is a great deal of truth in many of them. His blind loyalty to American producers does have the effect of making everything he posts appear foolish. Yes there are differences in the philosophical approach to the design, and execution of the production of autos by American, and the different non American producers.
I have NO LOYALTY to any brand or manufacturer. I am only concerned about how well a vehicle meets my needs, wants, and desires. Having owned cars and trucks new and used for over 40 years, I can say that while all manufactures have produced great cars and total pieces of crap by the standards of the time they were made, IMHO, TODAY, there is only an insignificant difference in comparable cars produced by whom ever.
My current vehicles are 03 X-Type Jaguar, 01 GMC Jimmy SLE , just unloaded a 92 Taurus and about to pick up a Toyota Solara Convertible.
The vehement hostile attitude expressed by so many here against the different manufacturers does not make sense to me. I can understand despising a dealer for the way they conduct the service and sales department. Yes no matter who the manufacturer is some, poorly produced cars will come off the assembly line.
My biggest bitch about cars are poor ergonomics, and cheesy interior materials that look like crap. As far as reliability goes IMHO they are all within acceptable tolerances.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The problem is that the odds of getting a poorly produced car are MUCH GREATER with some manufacturers than with others.
So why take the chance?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

That's a no brainer-except for Mikey.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Not so, they are not MUCH greater but rather closely bunched together. If you look at all of the surveys of owners problems, not as the 'list' that they are presented, but as the percentages they actually represent, you will discover they ALL have a failure rate of around 2%. 2% is the average failure rate for all industries, that is why ALL products offer a warranty. The question one should ask is, do I really want to spend 20% to 30% more to buy a particular brand in the hope I will NOT get one of THEIR 2% that are problematic?
Any brand one buys new today will easily run well over 100K or more before needing a major repair. One should therefore compare shop rates, part prices and the availability of parts, if they plan to keep a vehicle longer than the US average new cars buyers regimen of three to four years, or 60 to 80K on the clock before they buy another new car, since all manufactures today warrant their cars drive train for longer than the average trade time/mileage that buyers keep their cars
Since I switched for Lexus to domestics in 1999, I have saved thousands when buying another new car and hundreds annually on the prices I pay to have them serviced at the dealerships
mike
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
After my ten years is the fleet service business that serviced thousands of vehicles every month of just about every brand, I can tell you our years of record show there is no significant difference from one brand to another. Every manufacturer is making great vehicles today. The only real difference is style and price. After a dozen Toyotas and Lexus, I personally no longer buy imports because they simply cost too much more than the domestics I now buy. I do not own a GM vehicle.
Toyota should be worried more about the Koreans than the US manufactures. They are the ones that compete with Toyota in more of the worlds growing markets. They are building great cars that sell for thousand less in those markets
mike
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Mike, I'm in Australia and in my humble opinion Korean-made cars are crap, particularly the Daewoo models that are going under the GM badge. Unless you're getting a different build Korean car in the US then I suspect you may be smoking something.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"simon" ...

He's actually a resident Toyota NG troll who lives in his own little fantasy land. He does not help the cause of promoting domestic cars. He's the worst enemy in that regard, because he never has facts to back up his bullshit.
Hell, he doesn't even bother to chime in when we *do* praise certain domestic vehicles. He only shows up to try to discredit any praise we have of Toyotas, or amplify any problems we may have (and yes, Toyotas have problems that we're not blind to).
If you want a more reasonable discussion regarding domestic vs. foreign vehicles, I suggest other posters. This one will never admit he's wrong about anything. Ever.
Natalie
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Thanks Natalie, don't we love those fantasy land types (GWB is another one)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You are entitle to you own opinion but your statements are not factual. I have always said Toyota make great cars. I have also said, from what I've seen in my many years in the business, every other manufacturer today is making great cars as well. If pointing out that Toyota have problem on occasion make me a troll in you mind them I'm a troll but the fact is EVERY manufacturer makes some that are not up to snuff on occasion, the average for all manufactures including Toyota and Honda is around 2%, that is why they all offer a warranty, even Rolls Royce. You in the Toyota and Honda NGs, who cross post to domestic brands NGs to denigrate their vehicles, and praise those you buy, are the real trolls.
Our records over the years show the only real difference is style and price. I never suggest to anybody that the buy a particular brand, domestic or foreign, but rather that they drive ALL those that suit their needs, get a total drive home price for each and buy the ONE that suits their budget.
I do not own a GM vehicle and I personally no longer buy Toyotas or Lexus because my purchasing experiences proved to me after around a dozen of their vehicles, that Toyota and it dealers over price their vehicles and their service and many of their models are not only overpriced but underpowered compared to others in the market place. If others choose Toyota, that their choice, I could not care less.
mike

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:51:33 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
And Mike is the foremost authority in non-factual statements.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Nobody has ever called it that succinctly before, Gordon.
LOL
Thanks!
Natalie
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
When you run out of facts to support you arguments we expect you will always resort to personal attacks as you always do. What's next vulgarities? LOL
mike
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike Hunter wrote:

Mike, your comments about how Toyotas retain a smaller percentage of the value of Fords shows that you make lots of non-factual statements. Or the one that the 200 cc engine that ford makes is bigger than the 1.8 liter engine that Toyota makes (ford makes a 2000 cc engine, not 200 cc - unless they make small ones for their tractors). In addition, you said that Ford's Focus with the bigger engine is more fuel efficient than the 1.8 liter engine that Toyota makes, even though Ford's own comparison chart shows that is not the case and that the Honda Civic has an 1.8 liter engine that gets better mileage and has more power.
Gordon's comments are not a personal attack. Gordon's comments are a statement of opinion, one that is supported by your comments.
Mike, you stick your foot in your mouth way too much, especially when it is so easy for one (i.e., you) to verify one's (i.e., your) facts before stating them, and just as easy for others (e.g., me or anyone else with a working brain and internet connection) to verify them (or show that they are wrong).
Jeff
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.