Anti-Lock Brakes

Much more eloquently stated than any rebuttal I could come up with.

This isn't what the ABS exists to prevent, though. The ABS exists to prevent inadvertent lockup by inexperienced drivers who jam down on the pedal and lock the brakes in cases when they could have come to a controlled stop by feathering the pedal. The ABS automatically feathers the pedal for poor drivers who don't know how to do it themselves.

And this is a reasonable thing to do, especially seeing that nobody thinks clearly in a panic situation. But personally I will pass.

--scott

The problem I have with ABS brakes is that they don't increase overall safety. Studies of similar vehicles with and without ABS brakes show that the cars with ABS brakes are involved in fewer accidents of some types and more accidents of others. NHTSA spent millions trying to figure out why a supposed safety device did not improve safety. In the end they pretty much gave up, but said ABS is good, but we can't require it becasue statistics show it actually decreases safety. However, in the end, they got the last laugh. NHTSA decreed that all light vehicles will have electronic stability control (ESC), which effectively mandates ABS as well. And this time NHTSA didn't bother to study whether or ESC was actually improving safety, they essentially said, we know it is a good thing, so all light vehicles must have it and we are not going to take risk finding out that it is not useful. So now Americans will be spending billiuons for what is at best a marginal safety device because a zealous bureacrat who has probably been wined and dined by the ABS/ESC manufacturers, decided we should have it. Total rot. Billions for ABS/ESC/Air Bags, while the roads crumble under the cars. Idiocy.

Ed

i must say, your partial grasp on abs and traction control systems is providing entertaining reading to a shop with 4 techs: 3 of them ASE master techs, 2 of them Subaru Senior Master Tech's and one turning wrenches for a lot of years.

The techs in my kid's shop (suspensions) mostly goof off by welding containers to hold liquid nitrogen for cooling chips on old PC's, and taping the overclocking benchmarks for Youtube. Different shops, different goof off procedures.

--Vic

u never can tell what would have happend

LOL, reminds me of my AF days.., Liquid Oxygen...

With the recession, things are slow in the shop.....

He should try it sober and see what the result is.

Vehicle stability being one effect of abs (Sliding sideways doesn't help anybody) the main point of ABS is to maximize the braking ability. The MAXIMUM braking ability occurs at the moment before wheel lockup, (as it was explained to me in a aircraft maintenance class, the millisecond before the slide would start. A Slide has less braking ability, even though we feel like "we tried our hardest to prevent the accident-look at the skid marks" Feathering the pedal is a way of stimulating a abs for a car without abs, but there is no way you could do it as often as a computer can. I've been driving a lot of years, and my 92 F-250 is the only vehicle that has had ABS (not counting the Subaru-still undriveable) I've only had it's rear abs activate two or three times. (once in Phoenix rush hour with a camper on it- was glad I had it!) Once while driving a suburban in Minot North Dakota, its abs helped me stop on a sheet of wet ice. I did go into the intersection, but feel confident the abs stopped me shorter than I could have.

I like and trust ABS, but think if you feel it often, your driving to recklessly. Steve

Actually, for dry pavement, maximum force occurs with just a small amount of sliding between the rubber and the road surface.

ABS may maximize braking force for drivers of ordinary skill, but it provides no such benefit to a highly skilled driver.

In truth, though, few drivers fall into that category, and fewer yet can rely on that skill in an emergency.

Where ABS has fallen down, and where I've found it to be a hindrance, is in poor conditions where it will trade off braking power for stability (e.g. patchy ice or snow) although they have gotten quite a bit better over the years.

The sad thing though is that ABS has really not made us any safer...

nate

Absolutely.

I know.

cf. "The law of unintended consequences".

:-(

The argument is made that even highly skilled people can panic in a crisis situation.

Personally, I don't think that is sufficiently good argument. Mind you, I have panicked plenty of times myself, but I'd still rather be in control than have automation be.

--scott

ABS and stability control can help the experienced driver keep control in some of the toughest conditions.

In the same car within minutes of each test I've tried maneuvers on a slippery surface both with and without ESC and it allows better control in turns. I made two passes with and two passes with out the control functioning. No comparison, the ESC was far superior. Automaton does not take control, it allows you to have control. All you have to do is try it and you'll be convinced.

If one needs convincing of this, the most skillful drivers in the world are probably in F1...

...and they banned traction control and ABS because it was working to make the cars easier to drive even for them.

But Electronic-Stability-Control ? Well...ESC essentially corrects for a slide by straightening up the vehicle with braking of individual wheels. The problem is that when correcting for a slide...the rear-end of the vehicle can be snapped by in line at the end of the curve. But at mid-curve the rear-end of the vehicle can't be snapped back in line...because a rear-end slide at mid-curve must be carried all the way to the end of the curve. Now...ESC was first developed to improve the slalom performcance of an S-Class Mercedes. But in a slalom the vehicle is instantly at the end of the curve and never really at mid-curve. So the question is...what does ESC do at mid-curve when the vehicle is going 50 MPH and the rear-end is stepped out 20 degrees ? If the ESC snaps the rear-end of the vehicle back into line...at mid-curve...at 50 MPH...that is a spin-out !

Now my anti-lock brakes are back to normal...

It was just a combination of taking out the fuse, driving the car, and putting the fuse back in. And clearing the computer by disconnecting the postive battery cable. And clearing the computer with a code-reader. And also being connected to the state emission computer. Some combination of the above...

And the anti-lock brakes being back to normal is confirmed with coasting tests during the problem and after...

Now the problem was that the anti-lock brakes seemed to be dragging with the fuse in and not with the fuse out. Also the traction-control light could light up showing a moment of usage when usage would not be required. And there were no error codes...

But confuse the issue some more...the power steering is lighter with the ABS fuse in .

Please don't continue.

It prevents you from getting into a bad situation in the first place