AWD Impala?

On 3/20/06 5:47 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@nntp.charter.net, "SgtSilicon" spewed forth this gibberish...

ABS was designed for people who close their eyes and mash the brake pedal. Seen it happen more than once.

Agreed

I remember talking to a misubishi factory rep who was called out early one morning to investigate an accident in which the vehicles brakes had reportedly failed. The car was a brand new 3000GT VR4 twin turbo, all wheel drive. The female driver was on her way to work, with about 6-8 inches of fresh snow on the road. She was approaching a T intersection travelling 60 mph ( remember, all wheel drive ). She waited till the last minute to brake ( she has ABS ) and proceded to go through the guard rails and travelled about 150 yards into the woods. She claimed the brakes had failed. She said she hit the brakes and nothing happened. Of course the brake system was still functioning properly and had no damage whatsoever.

ABS was designed to let you stop AND steer at the same time. It is not magic. You still need to match your speed to the road conditons.

As slick as that sounds, steerability would probably been about nil at her rate of speed with or without ABS. You're right, ABS isn't magic. It's just an aid.

And, on a related note, after a snow storm there's a lot of AWD and 4WD vehicles in the ditches hereabouts (seems like the majority). AWD/4WD ain't magic, either, but a lot of people don't seem to understand that.

Damned fools.

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You see a lot of 4WD vehicles in the ditch because just having it guarantees you nothing; you have to know how to use it. I've had 4WD for 35 years and I've never gone into the ditch or gotten stuck with it. There are too many bad drivers on the road and we need to either train them or get them off the road.

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Don't you know... 4WD makes you invincible.

And fog lights. Don't forget fog lights! Makes you look oh-so-cool.

I have experience with several types of abs on passenger vehicles. There are times when it's nice to have abs (as in on very slipery ice) to keep control.

The biggest difference, I find, is on plain old snow. Abs systems are terible on the snow, because in that case it is very likely that you'll have better friction with locked up tires (even better if you pump the brakes yourself). Then the tires will dig through the snow and hit something underneith. With abs pumping away it really skates over the snow and you end up .... well, not stopping very well.

On dry pavement I find myself ahead of the computer when it comes to re-applying the brake pressure. That is to say, I could re apply the pressure more quickly than the system does.

I believe the professionals who got the stoping-distance results you speak of were jabbing the brake and just plain skidding with their non-abs tests. In that case I agree, an abs system will stop you sooner than just jabbing the brake pedal and leaving it down and leaving the tires skidding.

The only time I find myself praising the abs system is when I'm trying to stop on ice. I don't stop very well, but I don't end up sliding in the ditch either.

It's a trade-off really. Greater control... perhaps even shorter stopping distances depending how well you know how to stop in an emergency (ie. don't lock up the tires and leave them that way).

Electric brakes will lead to improved braking with abs... just wait and see. You'll see where we abs-dislikers are coming from. There are plenty of instances when my foot would have been faster, ice being the exception as well as detecting the actual skid point more quickly.

Very nice responce, thank you. :-) I was expecting something more harsh.

Thank you for the nice post as well. I would say I agree that in any condition where skidding results in shorter stopping distances, then ABS will be inferior in such situations. I just don't think there are too many situations like that. The snow "damming" effect might be one such example though.