BAILED-OUT CAR COMPANIES DOIN' FINE NOW? Waaait Just A Minute!

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It can be argued that union PENSIONS helped spark and spur "The Great Bush Depression."
They sure killed GM and Chrysler, didn't they? Drove jobs out-of-
country, didn't they? Until your tax dollars saved 'em -- restored them -- to regain their blissful seats.
For another go-round.
So now, y'all prepared to bail-out those millions of fat, lazy, unskilled, semi-literate UAW layabouts?
We hope most of YOU have defined-pension plans, too!
[What's LOL mean again?]
-------------------------------- "Pension time bomb: The shadow hanging over GM's turnaround"
Editorial The Washington Post Friday, August 27, 2010; A20
PRESIDENT OBAMA has a riposte for critics of his decision to rescue General Motors and Chrysler: You can't argue with success. And much good news has emanated from Detroit of late, especially from GM. Having wiped out almost all of its debt through an administration- orchestrated bankruptcy process, slashed excess plants and streamlined operations, GM is once again turning a profit: $2.2 billion so far in 2010. Sales are up; promising new models are coming to market. GM's aggressive new management is planning a public stock offering, which would let the Treasury Department start unloading the 61 percent stake it bought for nearly $50 billion. U.S. officials speak of escaping with modest losses -- a small price for averting industrial catastrophe.
All true -- up to a point. But the company's stock prospectus points to several reasons for caution, including such obvious ones as the sluggish U.S. economy and overcapacity in global auto manufacturing. And then there's a threat that the Obama-supervised bankruptcy did not address: the precarious condition of GM's immense pension plans.
With almost $100 billion in liabilities, GM's defined-benefit plans for U.S. employees (one covers a half-million United Auto Workers members, another, 200,000 white-collar personnel) are the largest of any company in America. Yet they were underfunded by $17.1 billion as of the end of 2009, and the underfunding had only slightly lessened, to $16.7 billion, as of June 30. (Chrysler has a similar problem, on a smaller scale.) Having been filled with borrowed money before Chrysler's bankruptcy, the funds can limp along for a couple of years. But, as GM's prospectus acknowledges, federal law will require it to start pumping in "significant" amounts by 2014 if not sooner. GM does not say exactly how much, but an April Government Accountability Office report suggested that a $5.9 billion injection might be required initially, with larger ones to follow. In other words, any investor who buys GM stock is buying stock in a firm whose revenue is already partially committed to retired workers.
When companies go bankrupt, their underfunded pensions often are taken over by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. (PBGC), a government-run, industry-funded insurance agency, which then pays retirees a fraction of what they were owed. But that didn't happen in the GM-Chrysler bankruptcy. The UAW resisted what would have been a huge reduction in the generous benefits of its members, especially the many who retire before age 65. And the Obama administration chose not to push back.
The net effect is that the pension time bomb is still ticking. If GM earns robust profits, even more robust than it is making now, the bomb won't detonate. Otherwise -- well, in a worst-case scenario, GM winds up back in bankruptcy, with PBGC intervention both unavoidable and more expensive than it would have been last year. And that could necessitate a bailout from Congress, because of the PBGC's own deficits.
We're not offering investment advice -- just a dash of realism about a still-troubled industry, and a warning that its dependence on taxpayers may not be ended so easily.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/26/AR2010082605757.html
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you ignore the fact that those auto companies agreed to those terms and failed to fund those pension funds when they were making billions in profits, instead paying those billions to their executives and shareholders,
the workers are not to blame, the leadership is
hate the fact that those union people make more money and have better benefits than you dumb ass hillbillies do, don't yall boy ?
that's because yall hillbillies are so willing to get on your knees for your masters and take whatever they give you and say thank yall sir
fat, lazy, unskilled, semi-literate ?
yall talkin about rush limbaugh,. huckleberry hillbilly, saraha cunt palin there boy ?
LMAO
damn if you ain't one stupid and ignorant som a bitch

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/26/AR2010082605757.html
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They got you by several IQ points, they are smart enough to realize they need a job in the future, they realize that their labor is only worth $20 and not $40, shit they are so damn much smarter than you it isn't funny, Glenn.
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take your fat ass, ignorant and stupid hillbillism and stick it up your wife's humongous ass gomer,
who are you or any other creeping, crawling redneck shithead to decide what somebody's labor is worth ?
you don't even realize how ignorant that remark is due to your inherent hillbilly stupidity,
let me educate your simple and feeble minded hillbilly ass;
is rush limbaughs labor worth $1 million a week ?, 2 1/2 times what the president makes in a year ?
is judge judy worth $40 million a year ?
are soldiers underpaid relative to the thieves in the banking industry ?
is a high school teacher in the inner city worth more than mike tyson ?
wages are a product of supply and demand shithead, just like raw material, that's another reason the republicans and their corporate masters have let 20 million mexicans in, so they can keep wages down when the baby boomers retire
also gomer, if limbaugh,beck, hanitty,palin, and the rest of the multimillionaire and billionaire conservatives know it all, and can run things better than everyone else, why don't they take their billions and buy some elections so they can get in power and straighten things out ?
ever thought about that, or do they just make outrageous salaries for contributing less than the typical auto worker ?
damn, you're one ignorant and stupid hillbilly som a bitch ain't yall boy
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GlennR wrote:

You are nothing but PWT.
--
Service Guarantees Citizenship

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On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:51:13 -0400, Jim_Higgins

I doubt he'll figure out what PWT is...
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On 8/28/2010 7:40 AM, GlennR wrote:

The market, given enough time will decide this. What makes a high school or less graduate think hey are worth $80/hr loaded rate and benefits? Arrogance? Entitlement? Envy?

A wise old person once told me you are paid on how easy you are to replace. Auto workers are easy to replace like a McDonalds worker.
So what does a typical union auto worker offer than almost 7 billion other people can't do?
People in India and China seem to be able to make autos cheaper. So why should the North American consumer subsidize your arses after CAW/UAW used the tax system to screw all workers for union and GM screw ups? Why should we help you selfish bastards after you screwed us?
Here is a hint, I no longer buy GM/Chrysler/UAW/CAW period. Because you want win-loose mentality.
--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

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Over the last few decades quite a few auto workers have been replaced by robots. That is actually how and why the job banks started. In order for the workers/unions to accept the robots they kept on being paid even if they did not have to do anything because the robot took over.
As time went by the robots started take over more and more jobs.
They are more reliable.
They are always there
Never have a headache.
Never have mondays sickness.
They work 31 without taking a pause.

Actually the robots will make sure that it will be cheaper to make the autos at home because they are cheaper and more reliable than even offshore workers.
So in the short run the robots were a problem but in the long run they will get the factories back from foreigners.
Unfortunately for GM - before the bankruptcy - the workers/unions made the robots too expensive to install and use and slowed down the process of using robots so the jobs moved abroad to a big degree.
So the workers/unions were shooting themselves and GM in the foot.
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So in the short run the robots were a problem but in the long run they will get the factories back from foreigners.
****** The British used to crow about their hand made automobiles. You all may remember how expensive they actually were, and they were not very good, at least IMO.
The Americans were a bit slow to go to robotic assembly lines, I believe. I dont believe that a human worker can make a complicated piece like a car as well as a fully automated robot line can do.
And maybe this is how we will get the factories back, but not the jobs.
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An excavator is like a robot doing many peoples jobs and faster.
Is there anyone wanting to get a job with a shovel competing with an excavator?
In the past workers complained that excavators and bulldosers as well as tractors were taking the jobs away.
If you run a factory with mainly robots in them it is more economical for the country than sending the jobs to low paying countries and you also getter better goods.
The question comes down to who should benefit from the robots?
In the distant past it can not have been easy for the workers losing a job to a robot.
If you look at the financial geniuses in wall street etc.
They are also losing their jobs to the robots.
The robots in those cases are computers and systems doing business.
A lot of the swings on wall streets is because their robots are not doing the jobs properly because they are trying to teach the robots to steal and cheat and that is more difficult than following the laws.
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The robots in those cases are computers and systems doing business.
A lot of the swings on wall streets is because their robots are not doing the jobs properly because they are trying to teach the robots to steal and cheat and that is more difficult than following the laws.
******** We have robots running congress, but I dont know who the hell wrote the software.
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hls wrote:

Big Pharma, Big Insurance, Wall Street, Banks and and the US Chamber of Commerce wrote the instructions. Of business, by business, forr business. Free market capitalism at its very worst, that is what we have seen now and in the very recent past.
--
Service Guarantees Citizenship

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BO(ZO)!
wrote in message news:1751d863-1310-4b3d-

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wrote:

Don't know were you get your info from I guess you have never been in a GM factory Gm started installing the first robots in the late 60s the lordstown plant had many and most of the other plants had a couple to start and learn. It grew by leaps and bounds from then on I don't ever remember the UAW blocking the installation of robots. many union members were trained to install and operate these lines, my guess GM had thousands or robots before the bankruptcy plus most of operations that could be automated were. The ranks of the UAW members went from 700k+ to less than 100k now. Before the bankruptcy the UAW had already agreed to reductions in the last 2 contracts. More of the UAW jobs are now skilled trades, the idea the people in this group suggest that they are fat dumb and lazy shows how little you know. Do things still need to change Yes, and they are. The statements in this group that the uaw is driving up the cost of autos, then why does Toyotas cost more than gm cars.
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Meaningless question. The price of a given automobile from one company cannot be compared to the type of labor in that or another company. Lamborghinis cost more than GM cars too. Why is that? Do you think it is just their labor cost?
If the contracts and labor practices were changed, GM cars could be priced lower yet if GM wanted to. Union or not, workers deserve good wages commensurate with the work done. There are many restrictions in some union contracts that add cost, not just pure hourly rates.
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Heck no...there are people with money who actually WANT Lamborghinis.
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Lamborghinis are really VW
http://europeforvisitors.com/germany/cars/vw-autostadt-brand-pavilions.htm
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What color is the sky in your world? LOL
wrote in message

Lamborghinis are really VW
http://europeforvisitors.com/germany/cars/vw-autostadt-brand-pavilions.htm
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Yahbut the sheet metal look a little different.
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An Audi R8 V10?
--
Clive


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