Bias Against Domestic Cars

It is his opinion, but he isn't alone. My last GM experience was my last. I will not even rent-lease one.

Have previously bought two made in Japan vehicles when they were made over there. Both were first class.

But I suspect this is mute. With Americans earning less, if they have a job in a crappy economy, they will also buy less expensive GM crap and put pressure on getting Hyndai, Tata and other truly green cars.

Yep, used GMs and Chryslers litter the lot.

Hmm, what's the legal situation with buying a U.S. Toyota and driving it back? Even with the taxes it might be a good deal.

I've bought three new Toyotas in California, one Land Cruiser, one Camry, and one 4Runner. All were purchased for well under the invoice price which seems to be the price that you go down from (not the MSRP). The dealer does not pay Toyota anything close to the invoice price of course. I'm sure the dealer did just fine on these sales. In fact all three were advertised specials in the newspaper "All in Stock at this Price." Naturally the dealer tries to make up for the relatively low price by selling you a gazillion worthless add-ons, plus financing, warranties, etc., but you're under no obligation to take them. Of course when cars like the Prius were in very high demand you could not get a good price on one, but for the mass market vehicles like Camrys where they crank them out like crazy and want to be the #1 vehicle in the U.S., the MSRP is at least $4500 more than what you have to pay for the base 4 cylinder model.

For one of the cars we went down to Southern California to get it because the savings were $1500 over the best price we could get in Northern California (the state is split for distribution purposes, with Southern California getting larger incentives). I told my old boss about this after he was disappointed in the Northern California Lexus prices and he flew down to buy a Lexus (the dealer even picks you up at the airport since they do this sort of thing a lot). Coming back on I-5 I was astounded to see the number of new cars (all brands) being driven north, apparently I was late to know this little trick but people I talked to had been doing it for decades.

In checking out used Toyota prices, I found no reason to buy a 2-3 year old Toyota until recently. My wife really wanted a Camry hybrid, and we bought it at a time when gas prices were down, and hybrid sales were in the tank. Personally it would not have been my first choice, but it was a good deal, which closed about an hour before sales tax went up.

And I bet they still haven't fixed those issues with new models.

What do you mean by "truly green cars"? And how do Hyndai and Tata qualify?

Jeff

Actually, I thought he was right on. Many dealerships trade vehicles like kids used to trade baseball cards.

I can believe that, I don't see where he disputes that. But they really are better.

Whole sale, MSRP, invoice, all a bunch of BS these days. It it means something I haven't paid more than invoice since 1989. Bought a Chrysler POC minivan. Last Chrysler I even considered buying.

I bet most Toyota's don't even make them too the lot, family hand me downs. Parents drive it for 14 years and 200,000 on the odo then give it to the kids or keep it as a second car.

In your dreams.

Green as in green in my pocket.

Lets face it, if a Tata Nano at $3700 loaded with A?C etc dies completely in 5 years, that is a mere $61.66 a month in TCO for capital cost.

GM Volt at say $40,000 by the same depreciation would have to last 54 years. And I can assure you a Volt will not last near that long.

Forget car payments, buy a Tata Nano. Even gets 52 mpg city, 61 highway and holds 4 imperial gallons (5 US gallons). Not a big cost to fill up. I wouldn't even doubt in a REAL driving test, on a 400 mile hiway run the Nano is easier on gas than the Volt!

Factor in the Volts need for new batteries every year at what? $4000 or

5000 per pop? Plus tilities and 2 drives to maintain.

Volt is a stupid priced and GM has a pretty bad small car record. Firenza or Geo anyone?

A GM is much safer. And the Tata will never make US environmental standards.

Jeff

You mean D3 auto puts enough cash in every senator, govenor, and every congress persons pocket to make sure they done get into the US (or Canada) as a protectionist move. They already do if for many an Asian comapnies.

But it will not last. The new economy isn't paying people enough after taxes to keep GM & Chrysler in a fashion they are accustomed too. And sooner or later government is going to rebel on GM as its insatiable blood sucking of public debt raised cash is going to get very unpopular.

I see what you mean. Those companies with names like Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Kia and Mazda have never entered the US market.

Actually I mean the safety and environmental standards that keep our air and waterways clean, and our highways safer. These are the same standards that the auto makers argued against.

Keep up the positive attitude for that company that says that it will be making money within a year or two.

jeff

Once a company is sucking on the taxpayers behind, they don't get off until cut off. To easy just to ask for more taxpayers debt funded moneys than to fix the problems.

You could have just stopped at "unaware".

Whatever. I still think his funniest bit of lack of knowledge was about how warranties work. He is one very clueless individual.

Did you ever OWN a Firenza??? I did. Quite possibly the best dollar for dollar deal I ever made, and I got more for it than I paid for it when I sold it about 6 years later, and the new owner drove it at least 5 more years. It wnt to the scrapyard looking basically as good as when I bought it, because we could not get a required part for the steering rack without ordering it from Britain.

That car was virtually trouble free - the only "GM" vehicle I've owned that I could say that about with a straight face. I DID service it as a British car - which means it DOES require regular minor maintenance.

The new Chevette will be a Tata. It's called "outsourcing"

c> Did you ever OWN a Firenza??? c> I did. c> Quite possibly the best dollar for dollar deal I ever made, and I got c> more for it than I paid for it when I sold it about 6 years later, c> and the new owner drove it at least 5 more years. It wnt to the c> scrapyard looking basically as good as when I bought it, because we c> could not get a required part for the steering rack without ordering c> it from Britain.

c> That car was virtually trouble free - the only "GM" vehicle I've c> owned c> that I could say that about with a straight face. c> I DID service it as a British car - which means it DOES require c> regular minor maintenance.

HMM,

I bought a brand new Firenza in 1969 and sold it after less than a year. It was a total POC which left me stranded on the roadside on several occasions. No fun in 20 below, I can assure you. The car had a so called "high performance" engine. With the accelerator floored it had trouble mainting 50m.p.h. up the slightest incline.

Cheers,

Indrek Aavisto

outside of a yugo I never heard of a auto that bad. what were the problems, out of gas what?? How many times, don?t just make statements just to troll.

The front engine/rear drive Vauxhall Firenza produced in England and sold in the 1970's is not the same front engine/front drive Oldsmobile Firenza produced in Mississippi and sold in the 1980's. Although they shared a name and parent company, I don't think the Vauxhall version would normally be considered as "domestic" in the U.S.

Some food for thought: in the context of a vehicle sold in the U.S, are these cars "domestic" or something else?

1970's Mercury Capri, produced in Germany Late model Ford Crown Victoria produced in Ontario, Canada Chevrolet HHR produced in the U.S. with 65% parts from Mexico but labeled as 85% domestic content because GM averages parts from larger SUV's How about a Camry produced in Kentucky with 80% domestic content vs. a Ford Taurus 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, produced in Australia Pontiac Vibe produced by NUMMI in the U.S. vs. Toyota Matrix?

That is the fodder for many pissing contests, especially in the past year or so since the auto industry bombed. We should be buying the "best" car that suits us. It may be US built or it may not be. Automakers should be making what customers want in order to make the highest sales. Government should stay out of it.