Brake Failure?!?!

Last weekend i decided it was time to replace my brake pads. I went around to all the wheels and replaced the pads, as well as the disks on the front wheels. This operation is something Ive done a number of
times and on a number of different vehicles, so its not new to me.
However, when I got back into my car, thinking the brakes would be great, I was disappointed to find that the brakes were much worse than before. It felt as if I would not get any braking power until about an inch from the floor. Naturally, I assumed there was air in the brake lines. I than proceeded to go around to the car bleeding the brakes (the old fashioned way).
After doing this twice, I was again disappointed to find that the brakes had not improved even the slightest. Looking around on the web I figured that the failure must be the master brake cylinder. I went out and bought a rebuild kit and got that all done. When I had everything bolted down and plenty of brake fluid (the correct kind for my car) in the resevoir, I was AGAIN disappointed to find the brakes were worse. It felt as if there was absolutely no resistance, other than the spring, on the pedal.
SO... after such a long description of the problem... I am wondering if anyone out there has had such a trouble, and if so, how they went about fixing it. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!
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I forgot to mention that my vehicle is a 1996 Saturn SL2. Up until this brake failure, it has been working flawlessly since I bought it used, four years ago.
"Bojangles043" wrote: > Last weekend i decided it was time to replace my brake pads. I > went around to all the wheels and replaced the pads, as well > as the disks on the front wheels. This operation is something > I've done a number of times and on a number of different > vehicles, so it's not new to me. > > However, when I got back into my car, thinking the brakes > would be great, I was disappointed to find that the brakes > were much worse than before. It felt as if I would not get any > braking power until about an inch from the floor. Naturally, I > assumed there was air in the brake lines. I than proceeded to > go around to the car bleeding the brakes (the old fashioned > way). > > After doing this twice, I was again disappointed to find that > the brakes had not improved even the slightest. Looking around > on the web I figured that the failure must be the master brake > cylinder. I went out and bought a rebuild kit and got that all > done. When I had everything bolted down and plenty of brake > fluid (the correct kind for my car) in the resevoir, I was > AGAIN disappointed to find the brakes were worse. It felt as > if there was absolutely no resistance, other than the spring, > on the pedal. > > SO... after such a long description of the problem... I am > wondering if anyone out there has had such a trouble, and if > so, how they went about fixing it. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR > HELP!
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This sounds like the calipers may be binding, Check for lubrications on the points where the calipers slide. Also, the pistons may be hanging up, wheel berings not loaded properly, causing the rotors to flop around, or maybe the pads just need to seat into the new rotors. Don't forget to check the rear brake adjustment as well. Long travel = low pedal.

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i appreciate your ideas... thanks!
"Ralph Shapiro" wrote: > This sounds like the calipers may be binding, Check for > lubrications on the > points where the calipers slide. > Also, the pistons may be hanging up, wheel berings not loaded > properly, > causing the rotors to flop around, or maybe the pads just need > to seat into > the new rotors. > Don't forget to check the rear brake adjustment as well. Long > travel = low > pedal.
> > >I forgot to mention that my vehicle is a 1996 Saturn SL2. Up > until > > this brake failure, it has been working flawlessly since I > bought it > > used, four years ago. > > > > "Bojangles043" wrote: > > > Last weekend i decided it was time to replace my brake > pads. I > > > went around to all the wheels and replaced the pads, as > well > > > as the disks on the front wheels. This operation is > something > > > I've done a number of times and on a number of different > > > vehicles, so it's not new to me. > > > > > > However, when I got back into my car, thinking the brakes > > > would be great, I was disappointed to find that the brakes > > > were much worse than before. It felt as if I would not get > any > > > braking power until about an inch from the floor. > Naturally, I > > > assumed there was air in the brake lines. I than proceeded > to > > > go around to the car bleeding the brakes (the old > fashioned > > > way). > > > > > > After doing this twice, I was again disappointed to find > that > > > the brakes had not improved even the slightest. Looking > around > > > on the web I figured that the failure must be the master > brake > > > cylinder. I went out and bought a rebuild kit and got that > all > > > done. When I had everything bolted down and plenty of > brake > > > fluid (the correct kind for my car) in the resevoir, I was > > > AGAIN disappointed to find the brakes were worse. It felt > as > > > if there was absolutely no resistance, other than the > spring, > > > on the pedal. > > > > > > SO... after such a long description of the problem... I am > > > wondering if anyone out there has had such a trouble, and > if > > > so, how they went about fixing it. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR > YOUR > > > HELP!
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Are you pushing fluid with good pressure when you bleed them? Also - you do know (right?), that you have to cross bleed ABS brakes. Left front, then right rear, then right front, then right rear, ad-nauseum. I generally open the bleeders and let them gravity bleed - makes the process a great deal easier. Bleeding ABS can be a pain in the butt.
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"Mike Marlow" wrote

Mike, where are you getting your information about cross bleeding ABS brakes? I've never heard of it. It's certainly does not apply to any GM vehicles that I've ever worked on. If there are specific models that you know about, please let me know.
Ian
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you
then
It was on my GM's that I was advised about this Ian. I can't point you to a document though. It was something that I was advised of when chasing a bleeding problem on a Park Ave Ultra and later again on a Sunbird. I was advised by a (maybe more than one) GM tech that at least on the GM systems, the opposing corners are paired in the ABS control. I thought I had later read something in one of my manuals that backed this up, but I can't say for sure.
It's kind of funny Ian - when I first encountered this information it seemed like I was the only one on the planet that didn't know it. No matter whether it's correct or not - it's nice to have some company...
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Dual diagonal braking has been present on some GM cars going back to the first FWD X body cars (Citation, Phoenix, Omega).
Haven't seen one yet where the bleeding sequence has you start at the front though...
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wrote:

Ah - I see the question now. Sorry guys - I was not intending to mean start at the front. I was simply trying to spell out the diagonal aspect.
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"Mike Marlow" wrote

No problem, I just thought that perhaps there was some new aspect to brake bleeding that I hadn't come across.
We do run into "some" different ways of bleeding brakes, but it usually involves vehicles with Stabilitrac systems (these days, anyway).
Ian
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In article

<snip>
How did you retract the rear caliper pistons? What did you do to take up the slack in the rear brake pistons once the new pads were installed?
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