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35 years in the auto industry and everyone I met knew how to build cars, and why don't they do this and that all it led to was this
put all the wishes and wants between two sheets of steel and call it apple
pie. you can guess and wish all you want but no one here can predict the future.
think it out a little bit and come up with some real thoughts.
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Some time ago, there was a post concerning the belief of US automakers that some "new sheet metal" would cause their sales to soar.
My comments, on that occasion, were that more was needed than new sheet metal.
Ford seems to be doing well. GM MIGHT be on course. This remains to be seen.
The USA NEEDS jobs, production, international sales. It is time to stop lying to ourselves about this, and get on with life.
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That kept them humming along in the fifties and sixties.
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Agree 100%

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On 02/05/2010 4:06 AM, Tom wrote:

But what we might not agree is how it is done. Bailouts is corporate welfare and using public taxes to do it is corruption.
If US business wants to compete, they are going to have a to get a lean management style where they produce and dont cost $12M plus perks. There is no room for $3000 of every auto going to management, management pensions, buyouts and the like. Likewise there is no room for stupid priced union labor with a work ethic of a slug.
If US auto manufacturing wants to survive, they need to get lean, loose the lard, shed the BS and get productive. Tehy need to become efficient at what they do or die.
Auto's are now commodities. Japan, China, Korea, Europe and Brazil can out produce world class automobiles and have zero reliance on US auto to do it. Even China now produces more autos than the US. How long does GM think it will be before China puts autos in North America that are cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, run top quality and are fuel efficient? And do so for 1/5th the cost of a GM?
Add in that people are busy paying their corporate welfare tax bill will have less money to spend on defunct GM auto anyways.
GM, leading the way to economic collapse.
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"Canuck57" wrote:
Bailouts are corporate welfare. Using public taxes to do it is corruption.
If US business wants to compete, they are going to have a to get a lean management style where they produce and don't cost $12M plus perks. There is no room for $3000 of every auto going to management, pensions, buyouts and the like. Likewise there is no room for stupid priced union labor with a work ethic of a slug.
If US auto manufacturing wants to survive, they need to get lean, loose the lard, shed the BS and get productive. They need to become efficient at what they do or die.
Auto's are now commodities. Japan, China, Korea, Europe and Brazil can out produce world class automobiles and have zero reliance on US auto to do it. Even China now produces more autos than the US. How long does GM think it will be before China puts autos in North America that are cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, run top quality and are fuel efficient? And do so for 1/5th the cost of a GM?
Add in that people are busy paying their corporate welfare tax bill will have less money to spend on defunct GM auto anyways.
GM, leading the way to economic collapse.
____________________________________________________________________________
It's a done deal. The money is already lost. The public stock and bond investors lost. The US government took 60 per cent of the new stock to represent the billions of lost taxpayer bailout dollars. The Canadian government took 11 per cent of the new stock to help keep the business alive to purchase Canadian labor and materials. The UAW got 17 per cent of the new stock to recover some of its nonexistent (unfunded) benefits.
For potential investors it's time to look to the future. The US will dilute the stock float by dumping its stock on the open market to get out of the manufacturing business. The Canadians will quietly dump their shares for the same reason. The UAW, the ultimate owners, will extract every possible self-benefit from the operation to the detriment of all other stockholders until the corporation runs into the ground again, then ask for a new bailout.
I hope I am wrong. Please give me some reason for hope.
Rodan. <- - - Former owner of GM stock in retirement account.
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TARP money 750 bil. stimulus package 1 trillion, country 12 trillion in debt, 65 bil a month leaving the country due to balance of trade deficit. The Govt has admitted that we cannot pay back the debt, and they keep increasing it. The Govt and teachers pension funds are broke, we as taxpayers have to pay them in full. a health care package coming that we will see grow year by year as our leaders want to listen to the special intrest groups. Don't worry about gm the whole country will be bankrupt in a few years. Greece is only the first, our leaders don't have the guts to face this problem, they are secure in there own little world. our motto Help everyone no matter what it costs ( afford it or not)

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On 01/05/2010 6:52 PM, hls wrote:

I agree with you. New sheet metal isn't going to help dysfunction companies.
But with a $4++ billion loss of taxpayers money, GM is still off course. Sort of like I was gushing 2 pints of blood a minute and we have it down to one so life is Ok. But it isn't.
GM is done for, it will straggle along on corporate welfare until it gets dumped. Then flounder for a few years and die. GM is so far out of touch with reality they are doomed.
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Where else can someone take a partial fact turn it into a complete lie, post it as the truth, expand it and predict the future, you must be in the media. There are two things the first was a loan of 6.7 million in dec. 08 to support operating cash which was paid back with interest. the second is a purchase of Gm for 59bil. to be repaid by selling stock in the future, this I agree will not be paid back in full how much will be repaid will not be known for awhile and it depends on the IPO and how the debtors sell of their shares. so have at it and twist it any way you can. the truth will set you free.
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On 02/05/2010 9:46 AM, Tom wrote:

And they paid part of it back with the money we the taxpayer were forced gave them. No value in that but bullshit.
GM hasn't made a red cent in payback. Just a ponzi PR scheme.
Makes you a sucker to believe otherwise. And un-American to own a GM these days because of it. Given what they stand for, extportion and hoodwinking of working taxpayers all over America and Canada.
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You remind me of an old toyota with a leaky rad. sputtering and spitting all over yourself you need to seek some professional help.
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On 02/05/2010 11:36 AM, Tom wrote:

The only sputterring going on is GM...
Guess you have no morals on right and wrong.
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I don't agree with you so I don't have morals, maybe you don't know right from wrong you have made the same copy paste posts for over a year get a life. everyone that has a fixation on a subject has some motive, mine is I worked for the company and I want it to live. what is yours.
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On 02/05/2010 12:44 PM, Tom wrote:

Then explain why a person say in Montana working for non-union and no pension $15/hr should be paying taxes and bailing out GM?UAW or doing without for GM in Detroit? Why is that right, not execuses, why is it right?
I need to hear this bullshit...
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Why. Did Montana become a province of Canada while I wasn't looking?
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On 02/05/2010 7:35 PM, Dave wrote:

Doesn't mater. Same deal, why should a $15/hr non-union no pension worker in Regina pay for some union turd in Oshawa....wanting abilout bucks for the rich.
This fraud and scam for auto was a coordianted conspiracy to defraud the taxpayer.
How is the Regina or Montana worker ever going to benefit from higher taxes or lower federal services for corrupt corporations? Tangible stuff, not pie in the sky fantasy bullshit... explain how it is right to tax them....for others sins?
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You want benefits for workers? Have them vote in a union.
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On 02/05/2010 10:01 PM, Dave wrote:

Then nothing would get done right and a McDonnalds burger would cost $30.
Still haven't explained why it is right? Just a union brain fart so far.
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Look, this could as easily be a Buick with a busted plenum.
If GM pulls itself out by the bootstraps, and if they make cars and policies that are exciting and beneficial to the customer, then they CAN pay back all loans with interest.
Let's get serious.
AFAIK, none of us here basically hate GM OR Toyota. Let the competition begin, and let the winner(s) profit.
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On 02/05/2010 4:57 PM, hls wrote:

How can producing and deserving companies compete against subsidized GM? Presuming GM does get it's crap together that is?
http://centristnetblog.com/daily-news/february-2010-largest-monthly-budget-deficit-in-american-history /
Backed by the biggest debt spender of all time, GM can't loose until Obama is removed from office.
Hopefully people wise up in November and stop this corruption of Congressional massive debt spend to keep turkeys like GM sucking on the taxpayers hind.
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