Cadillac Deville input

Hello all,

I was just over to the Cadillac ng and not much happening there. I am thinking of looking for a '98-'00 Deville to buy. I would love any opinions on these cars. Do they have any common problems with engines, transmissions, etc.? I believe these cars to have the Northstar V-8. Do these engines have gasket issues? Anybody know what the average mpg is?

I was looking at newer cars within my budget and was very discouraged. Most of them were like sitting on a wooden park bench. I want a car with substance, comfort and of course all the fun toys and I'm thinking a used, nice caddie would be a good choice.

Thanks, Tom

Reply to
Thomas
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Hello all,

I was just over to the Cadillac ng and not much happening there. I am thinking of looking for a '98-'00 Deville to buy. I would love any opinions on these cars. Do they have any common problems with engines, transmissions, etc.? I believe these cars to have the Northstar V-8. Do these engines have gasket issues? Anybody know what the average mpg is?

I was looking at newer cars within my budget and was very discouraged. Most of them were like sitting on a wooden park bench. I want a car with substance, comfort and of course all the fun toys and I'm thinking a used, nice caddie would be a good choice.

Thanks, Tom

Reply to
Mike Hunter

anybody in a NG to know anything about the particular

good or bad, is useless. When you buy a vehicle

it was serviced properly or not. Your best option > is to have a qualified technician, or a used car appraiser, look at the particular car and follow their advice

Geeze Mike - relax a bit. The fellow was asking about 98-00 Caddie DeVilles in general - not about any specific car. He asked a fair question. Maybe you don't have any more specific knowledge of those Caddie years than I do, or of the Northstar V-8 than I do, but he asked a fair question.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

Reply to
Shep

The fact remains there is no way for anybody in a NG to know anything about the particular ONE a person is considering. Any experience anybody in a NG may have had, good or bad with a similar car, is useless. The point of asking in a NG is a waste of time and certainly not of any value as it pertains to the particular car at which the person is looking.

The days when technicians and engineers used NG to exchange information and gain knowledge of a brand or model are long gone The only people that generally frequent NGs today are those looking of a cheap or free fix for some problem they are having with their particular vehicle. Naturally the most types of comments one is likely to hear, from a person with a problem, will be negative. Particularly when one considers many people, who have no life, are in the NG simply to find an audience for their personal opinion, or to bash the brand. The only thing one can count on from those types is that the love the brand THEY buy and it is generally not the one represented by the NG. ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

You need to re-read the OP Mike. He never asked about any particular car. He asked very clearly about the characteristics of a series of cars. Quite an appropriate question. If someone were to ask about 98-00 Chevy Malibu's with a 3.1 L motor, wouldn't you agree that there are certain things that could generally and accurately be said about those cars?

I disagree with that since several of us do precisely what you say is long gone. But... even if that were not true, so what? Does that in any way lessen the validity of the OP's question? No - it doesn't.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

Hello all,

I was just over to the Cadillac ng and not much happening there. I am thinking of looking for a '98-'00 Deville to buy. I would love any opinions on these cars. Do they have any common problems with engines, transmissions, etc.? I believe these cars to have the Northstar V-8. Do these engines have gasket issues? Anybody know what the average mpg is?

I was looking at newer cars within my budget and was very discouraged. Most of them were like sitting on a wooden park bench. I want a car with substance, comfort and of course all the fun toys and I'm thinking a used, nice caddie would be a good choice.

Thanks, Tom

Reply to
Roy

I'm sure if you do a search you can dig up some of the common problems associated with the Northstar engine.

One thing about the car is the price drops pretty fast after 2-3 years pass, So you should be able to find some great bargins.

Expensive to fix if you have to bring it in. The starter is inside the engine under the intake manifold. Alternator is buried underneath the engine. Very hard motor for the average Joe to work on.

Good Luck

Harryface

05 Park Avenue, 33,437 91 Bonneville LE 305,177
Reply to
Harry Face

Thank you Roy and Mike Marlow for you input. Much appreciated. I will look at consumer reports.

Key words Hunter "common problems"

Reply to
Thomas

Hello all,

I was just over to the Cadillac ng and not much happening there. I am thinking of looking for a '98-'00 Deville to buy. I would love any opinions on these cars. Do they have any common problems with engines, transmissions, etc.? I believe these cars to have the Northstar V-8. Do these engines have gasket issues? Anybody know what the average mpg is?

I was looking at newer cars within my budget and was very discouraged. Most of them were like sitting on a wooden park bench. I want a car with substance, comfort and of course all the fun toys and I'm thinking a used, nice caddie would be a good choice.

Thanks, Tom

Reply to
Tim & Linda

I would personally rather read peoples comments about their Cadillacs in general, whether it would apply to my situation or not, than some of the other i-hate-you-go-to-hell crap that takes up so many bytes of space.

Reply to
Michael Keefe

I wonder how many of the happy Cadillac owners lurk in a GM NG? ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Thank you Roy and Mike Marlow for you input. Much appreciated. I will look at consumer reports.

Key words Hunter "common problems"

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Is that not pretty much a problem 'common' to most FWD vehicles? ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

How would that help him to determine whether or not he should buy the ONE he is considering? Are you an automotive technician or engineer?

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Thank you Roy and Mike Marlow for you input. Much appreciated. I will look at consumer reports.

Key words Hunter "common problems"

Reply to
Roy

Thank you Roy and Mike Marlow for you input. Much appreciated. I will look at consumer reports.

Key words Hunter "common problems"

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Thank you Roy and Mike Marlow for you input. Much appreciated. I will look at consumer reports.

Key words Hunter "common problems"

Reply to
Roy

Hello Tom:

I own a 1995 Cadillac Seville STS (used) that I purchased about two years ago. Initially, there were problems with the car due to improper care by the previous owner. Now my STS runs almost like new after having all of the necessary repairs completed over a period of time. Cadillac repairs can be expensive. That is a draw-back. However, the cost is worth it when you find yourself driving smoothly down the freeway, with the ability to handle most cars head to head.

The Northstar Engine is one of the best produced in the United States. I have pasted information about the engine below. Print this message so you will have time to review it at your own pace.

Peace,

Famous

_____________________________________________ Maintaining GM Northstar V8 Engine

By Larry Carley, Technical Editor

The Northstar V8 engine family is General Motor's top-of-the-line luxury power plant. Introduced in 1993 in the Cadillac Allante, Eldorado and Seville STS, the 4.6L 32-valve dual overhead cam all-aluminum V8 engine was a quantum leap forward for U.S. automakers. Initially rated at 295 horsepower, the Northstar V8 has been ranked as one of the "10 Best Engines in North America" by Ward's Auto World. It also beat out both Mercedes-Benz and BMW in horsepower per liter of displacement, fuel economy and required maintenance.

Like most other engines, the Northstar V8 has evolved over the years. In 1994, the first Northstar V8 (L37) was joined by a second version (LD8) with a different cam profile that lowered peak horsepower slightly to 270 hp but increased torque output in the lower rpm range for improved throttle response and quick acceleration.

In 1994, a downsized and somewhat less powerful version of the original Northstar V8 was introduced in the Oldsmobile Aurora. The L47 4.0L V8 was essentially the same engine as the larger 4.6L V8 but with a smaller bore size (87mm vs. 93mm). The L47 4.0L V8 was rated at 250 horsepower.

In 1995, the power rating of the L37 4.6L V8 (VIN 9) was bumped up slightly to 300 hp, and the LD8 4.6L V8 (VIN Y) was upped to 275 hp.

The two basic versions of the 4.6L V8 (275 and 300 hp) are still being used in model year 2003, and there are no plans to replace this engine in the immediate future. So it looks like the Northstar V8 will continue to enjoy a long production run.

GM recently unveiled its Northstar XV12 concept engine that is physically about the same size as the existing V8 but is capable of producing up to 750 horsepower! The engine uses cylinder deactivation technology to keep fuel economy manageable, but there are no productions plans yet for this exotic power plant.

Engine Features The Northstar V8 has a die-cast aluminum block with a bottom end girdle that splits along the midline of the crankshaft bearings. This takes the place of the main bearing caps. In model year 2000, GM began using a new high pressure "squeeze" casting process for the lower crankcase to reduce porosity in the aluminum, which may allow oil to seep through and leak (this has been a problem on some engines).

The cylinders have cast-in-place iron cylinder liners that are not replaceable. Compression up to model year 2000 was a relatively high

10.3:1. It was lowered to 10:1 in 2000. Each head has two camshafts (one intake, one exhaust) and four valves per cylinder (33mm intakes and 29mm exhausts). Direct-acting hydraulic lash adjusters are positioned over each valve. The overhead cams are all chain-driven, and use an intermediate chain sprocket under the front cover to connect to the crankshaft. Three separate hydraulic tensioners are used to keep the cam chains tight.

The Northstar V8 is an interference engine, which means if a chain fails or is disconnected when the engine is cranked over, the valves will hit the pistons. That's something you don't want to happen with an expensive engine like this!

The intake manifold is Nylon 66 thermoplastic, which helps cool intake air by conducting less heat from the engine. Fuel delivery is by sequential fuel injection with separate injectors mounted under the engine's top cover. Under the top cover you'll also find the MAP sensor, intake air temperature sensor and fuel pressure regulator.

If the fuel pump relay fails on a Northstar V8, the engine should still run because the fuel pump also can be energized through the oil pressure sending unit.

A four-coil distributorless ignition with a waste spark set up provides spark to the plugs. Two crankshaft position sensors are used (A and B) plus a camshaft position sensor to provide timing inputs. Both crank sensors are mounted in the block and the cam sensor is located on the rear head in front of the exhaust cam. There's also a knock sensor on the rear head between cylinders 1 and 3 to retard timing if detonation becomes a problem under load.

The ignition system has two modes of operation: "module mode" and "ignition control mode." In ignition control mode, the PCM controls ignition timing using sensor inputs. If there's a problem in the PCM or with its sensor inputs, the module mode takes over and runs the engine with a fixed 10 degrees of advance. The engine continues to run (essentially a limp-in mode) but with reduced performance.

In model year 2000, the DIS ignition system was changed to a coil-on-plug design, which eliminates the spark plug wires and waste spark. Each head has its own ignition module that fits in the middle of the valve cover.

Another feature of the Northstar engines is a "limp home" mode that allows the engine to continue running if all the coolant is lost. If the PCM senses an overheating condition, it temporarily disables up to half of the cylinders. This pumps enough air though the engine to keep temperatures from getting hot enough to cause any damage. Even so, GM says the vehicle should not be driven more than 50 miles in the limp-home mode.

Another unusual feature you may see is a liquid-cooled alternator on the DeVille and Seville. Cadillacs are crammed with electrical accessories that put quite a load on the charging system, so using liquid cooling helps prolong the life of the alternator. In 2001, GM went back to an air-cooled alternator to "eliminate the coolant tubes and potential leak points."

Maintenance As for maintenance, there isn't much. One of GM's goals with the Northstar program was to reduce maintenance to a minimum. The engines are factory-equipped with 100,000-mile platinum-tipped spark plugs and five-year/150,000-mile Dex-Cool antifreeze, and use chain-driven cams to eliminate the need to replace timing belts. Except for oil and filter changes, there isn't much to maintain - unless something breaks.

The newer Northstar V8s use an "oil life monitor" light rather than a specific mileage interval or service schedule to indicate when oil changes are needed. The PCM tracks engine rpm, operating temperature, load, running time and ambient temperature to calculate oil life. Up until 1999, the maximum oil change interval under ideal conditions was

7,500 miles. In 2000, GM bumped the upper limit to 10,000 miles. In 2002, they did away with the upper limit altogether stretching the oil change interval to 12,000 miles or more, depending on operating conditions. However, GM does say the oil should be changed at least once a year regardless of mileage.

Note: When changing oil on a 4.6L Northstar V8, keep in mind that this engine holds 7.5 quarts instead of the more common 4 or 5 quarts.

We think pushing the oil change interval too far is asking for trouble. Changing the oil every 3,000 miles may be a conservative approach to engine maintenance, but considering the fact that most engines operate under less than ideal conditions, 3,000 miles is a realistic figure - especially during cold weather and for short trip, stop-and-go city driving. Oil is a lot cheaper than an engine - especially a Cadillac Northstar V8 engine.

In researching this engine, we discovered that few rebuilders are overhauling Northstar V8s - not because these engines are lasting forever (they're not) but because the Northstar V8s are such expensive and complex engines. Cadillac has no reman program for Northstar V8s (if one fails, replace it with a new one). None of the major production engine rebuilders are doing Northstar V8s, and some rebuilders told us certain critical internal parts are unavailable (such as oversize crankshaft bearings). Add to this the fact that the cylinder liners can't be replaced or overbored and it doesn't leave much to rebuild.

Even the heads are throw-aways, according to Cadillac. If the valve guides are worn, Cadillac says the cylinder heads need to be replaced. The heads have hard powder metal valve guides, but we don't see any reason why the guides can't be replaced with new ones or repaired with bronze or cast iron guide liners.

Problems & Recalls As well-engineered as Northstar V8s are, like other engines they've had some problems. According to various sources, head gasket failures are not uncommon. Nor is oil burning or oil leaks.

Cadillac service bulletin 01-06-01-011 deals with oil burning on

1996-'99 Northstar V8s. The cure, says Cadillac, is to do a ring cleaning procedure (seems those long oil change intervals weren't such a good idea after all). Cadillac recommends using GM cleaning kit (P/N 12378545) and Kent-Moore J-45076 induction/evacuation tool to do the job. The cleaner is added into the cylinders through the spark plug holes and allowed to soak the rings for two hours. The cleaner and dissolved crud is then vacuumed out of the cylinders through the spark plug holes, followed by an oil change. Cleaning the throttle body and EGR valve is also recommended.

On 2000-'01 Northstar V8s, a buildup of carbon deposits in the combustion chamber can cause a cold knock condition. Bulletin

99-06-01-101A says to use top cleaner to remove the combustion chamber deposits.

If an engine has failed and is being rebuilt or replaced, the Engine Rebuilders Association (AERA) says the plastic intake manifold also should be replaced. The reason? Because of the complex shape of the manifold, it's impossible to tell if any engine debris has been blown back inside it. If the debris works loose and is ingested into the new engine, it will cause a repeat failure. That you don't want.

No oil pressure on a 1993-'94 engine? Debris between the oil pressure relief valve and its seat will prevent oil pressure buildup. The cure here is to clean or replace the pump (P/N 3543258), which is located on the front of the engine.

Oil leaks around the rear main crank seal have been a problem on some

1996-'99 engines, so GM has developed a new rear main oil seal (P/N 12556107) that should cure this problem. It's a press fit seal that takes a special tool (J-42482) to remove and install.

In 1995, GM revised the original crankshaft balancer to provide smoother operation and longer durability. If the balancer is removed from the crankshaft for any reason, GM recommends installing the newer, improved balancer (P/N 12552437 or 12552436, depending on the engine).

If you have to pull a cylinder head on a 1993-'99 4.0L or 4.6L Northstar V8 to replace a gasket or do a valve job, do not reuse the old 11mm head bolts. Also, GM has revised the head bolt torque values and tightening procedure as follows:

In sequence, torque all bolts to 30 ft.-lbs. In sequence, rotate all bolts an additional 70=B0. In sequence, rotate all bolts an additional 60=B0. In sequence, rotate all bolts another 60=B0. Torque the front three M6 head bolts to 106 in.-lbs. Because the Northstar V8s are aluminum, thread damage is not unusual. GM's recommended thread repair kit is J42385-500 for main and head bolts, and J42385-2000 for other fasteners.

Accessing Diagnostic Codes For driveability and emissions problems, you can access trouble codes and sensor data the usual way with a scan tool, or you can read the information through the Climate Control Center. To enter the built-in diagnostic service mode, press the OFF and WARMER buttons simultaneously and hold until all the segments on the display panel light up. If there are any engine or other trouble codes in memory, they will be displayed.

On the 1993-'95 models (pre-OBD II), trouble codes have a letter prefix, three-digits followed by a "C" for current or "H" for history code. On the 1996 and newer cars with OBD II, the prefixes are somewhat different and the codes are four-digit numbers.

On the earlier cars, engine codes have an "E" prefix. On the later OBD II cars, "P" is the prefix for powertrain.

Other codes on the earlier cars include "I" for instrument panel, "A" for the A/C system, "R" for the air bag system, "T" for ABS/traction control, and "S" for the electronic suspension. On the newer OBD II cars, the prefixes are different. You'll see "IP" for the IPC instrument panel, "AC" for air conditioning module, "TC" for traction control, "RS" for the road suspension system, "SD" for the air bags, "PZ" for the body control module, plus other codes for other accessories such as "CC" for the cell phone or "RF" for the integrated radio.

If there are no engine/powertrain codes in memory, the display will read "No E Code" or "No P Code" depending on the model year.

To check for other system codes, press the WARMER button to scroll ahead (or OFF to scroll backward). If the PCM can't communicate with a particular system, the display will read "No X Data" where X represents the letter(s) of the system.

To clear an engine code, choose PCM mode after any codes have been displayed, then scroll to CLEAR CODE, press the HI button to select, then press the HI button again to erase the code(s).

To exit the service diagnostic mode, press the AUTO or DEFOG button, or simply turn the ignition off. This does not erase any codes.

There's More, Lots More... The built-in diagnostics provides access to each of the onboard electronic systems, which you can scroll through using the LO button. To select a system, press the HI button.

If you choose the PCM mode (powertrain control module/ engine), you can again use the LO button to scroll through more display options: DATA, INPUTS, OUTPUTS, OVERRIDES, CLEAR CODES and SNAPSHOT. As before, press HI to select your choice.

Under each of these categories are quite a list of things you can look at. Under PCM data, you can look at all the various sensor inputs, short-term and long-term fuel trim, injector pulse width, engine rpm, battery voltage and PROM identification. Under PCM INPUTS, you can check switch status (throttle position switch, brake pedal switch, transmission gear switches, etc.). Use the PCM OUTPUTS mode to check the EVAP and EGR systems, torque converter clutch solenoid, A/C compressor relay and transaxle solenoids.

The OVERRIDE mode under the PCM section allows you to override the various inputs to the PCM using the WARMER button to increase the value or the COOLER button to lower the value. Overrides include the TCC solenoid (mode PS01), EGR solenoid (PS02), idle speed control motor (PS03), disable individual fuel injectors (PS04), disable fuel pump relay (PS06), cruise control servo (PS07), cooling fan relay (PS08), spark timing advance (PS09), injector flow (PS10) and transaxle shift solenoids (PS10).

Reply to
famous21

Whether or not you meant 'goof or bad' or 'good or bad', they both fit

Reply to
Olaf

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