Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man

VW owns several other brands. It is very interesting to visit Autostadt

Seat Pavillon

Bentley Pavillon

Audi Pavillon

Lamborghini Pavillon

=8Akoda Pavillon

?koda Pavillon

The VW Skoda was one of the best bargains in my country of original choice. Not good for resale, but high quality and inexpensive.

Good for them. As I stated before, there are many differences between the unions of the US car makers and others. The union itself is neither good or bad, but contract restraints can be. I also put some of the blame on the company as they agreed to give the house away at times. If this was 1930 I may be pro union. Since my working career started in 1963 I've had no use for them personally.

Sorry, but I could never take the pay cut. I can also think for myself, negotiate for myself, and I certainly don't want to walk out of my job because some slacker can't cut it on the job.. I've worked for a couple of union companies but never had the desire to join one.

Some unions are good and honestly try to better the work environment, others are out to make a buck and collect dues from hard working people that just don't know any better. I've seen it up close and dealt with the union officials.

Not everyone, but you obviously are.

So, why did you bring it up?

Go ahead though - read another page of

Not everyone, but you obviously are. So, you advocate "get out from underneath the unions and the obligations they have to them."? Nice philosophy you got goin' there. I'm sure people you deal with daily appreciate the fact that you're so quick to try to weasel out of an agreement. Hope it works for you. It wouldn't for most.

Dave

After VW bought Skoda the quality of the Skoda became the same as VW - very high - but the price remained very low. The reputation of low quality is hard to get rid of.

I addressed your response which was all about what you felt was a need to set the record straight. The fact of the matter is that GM is bogged down by years of two things - bad management practices (as I stated originally) and bad union agreements. Both of those were survivable during banner decades, but both of those are equally burdensome to a company in difficult times. Both are equally responsible for their share of those difficult times. It's one thing to live high in good times and more power to both union members and management if they can do so. It's an entirely different thing to stand fast on terms and practices which are refelective of the good times, when things aren't so good. Say what you will but the obligations that the automakers have to their unions (active and retired) is as costly to GM as their good old boys management style.

Perhaps, but in this case I assure you - not the case. I am neither incensed, nor would I wish to lower my income level to that point.

I have no need for a union in my life, but I'm not anti-union. My original point put the weight equally on the shoulders of GM management and obligations GM has to union contracts. Hardly seems anti-union to me.

You cannot understand the difference between discussing the weight of something like union contracts on a company, and the practice of union bashing?

Contracts are renegotiated periodically. Surely you can understand there are opportunities presented for changes and adjustments at these times. Why do you assume (rather foolishly) that I suggest "weaseling" out of any agreement? You need to take your union blinders off and look around at the world of options that exist out here in reality.

I'd actually advise against the Passat for exactly the reasons you state. It's supposedly quite a bit more problematic than the smaller A-chassis cars.

nate

Most VWs sold in the US come from Mexico or Brazil.

nate

When a company gets too big the objective of creating good cars seems to get lost. The Unions are fighting for the salaries and working hours of members as if that is the only issue to worry about. Management basically figting the unions and getting as much as they can for themselves.

The common goal of keeping the company alive falls between the camps somewhere and becomes a side issue.

I visited the factory in Wolfsburg (Autostadt) with a decade in between. There is a very noticable difference in the number of robots. There are ever less number of human robots - people doing robot like jobs. Increasing number of supervisors making sure the robots are working properly.

For every robot introduced there are a number of people not needed anymore.

Even if this process is only happening gradually then over a decade the effects are huge.

Working hours and working conditions for those remaining change. The effect of the Unions is completely different.

If a factory is not introducing robots it will soon be out of business.

If you look at the number of people working in an old factory and compare with a factory that produces the same amount of cars with robots you will see an enoumous difference.

A robot works 24 hours a day. Does not go on strike. Does not need toiletbreaks. Always does the same thing over and over. No hangovers and no monday cars.

I guess that ultimately the survivor of GM will be how well they can handle the situation of getting rid of people and introduce more and more robots. I know they have a lot of robots already. I am pretty sure that the Unions are not always too happy about getting more robots because then they lose people. Management are not always happy with robots because of their initial costs and starting problems.

Introducing a robot into a human robot chain of work is not as efficient as designing the factory around the robots.

Like it or not the robots are gradually coming and they will meen a lot less people will be needed. Who is to get the benefit of the robots work is what it is all about. The Unions will have to accept more and more robots otherwise the whole company will lose in the fight against other companies using robots.

So it is not a question of foreign labor against domestic. In the end it will not matter where the factory is located because the robots will win every time. They get cheaper and more reliable all the time. All machines are in a way robots.

I would like to hope that VW holds the same high standards no matter where the car is made...(?)

Something wrong with a Mexican car??

My Avalanche is Mexican. Seems fine so far. (Just under two years old and about 34,000 miles.)

What's sad is that the typical reputation of VW quality among VW fans is Germany = best, everywhere else = pretty good, Westmoreland, PA = run like hell. Now my mom drove a Westmoreland built Golf for almost 20 years so they must have cranked out at least a few good ones. I had two Westmoreland built cars myself, one was fine, the other had a lot of niggling little problems, but it had been sitting in a barn and then resuscitated before I bought it.

nate

Work ethic in Mexico isn't as good as in Germany. Fly Mexicana or Lufthansa?

As much as I dont like the tone of the remark, there is some truth to it. The work ethic doesnt have to be as good on a personal level, however, if the quality programs are in place and are functioning.

Many companies institute programs like ISO but not all are serious in making them actually function. Some just want the certificate.

One of the things I have heard about VW, and which really disappoints me if true, is that in cases of problems, the dealerships are about as helpful as a case of diarrhea, and the "factory", corporate VW, takes the dealership side.

Pity the client, if this is true..

Of course, GM has had a long history of similar behavior.