Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man

Can't speak for the VW plant in particular, but in general . . . . . . In Germany, workers often stay with a company for many years. In Mexico, companies have turnover rates of more than 100%. Put the ISO stuff in place, but I'll take an experienced careful worker over ISO programs any day.

ISO programs can be good, but they are not an assurance of good quality. They assure you make what you say you make, even if it is crap. But it will be consistent crap from batch to batch.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski
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Yes. I've flown both.

I'm still here.

(Oh, and for the record, I spent the first 13 years of my life in a VW. My mom had first a '69 then a '73 bug. I was supposed to inherit it when I turned 16, but couldn't fit my knees behind the steering wheel to shift by the time I turned 13. She dumped it and bought an Oldsmobile Gutless Supreme.)

Reply to
PerfectReign

That is one of the complaints I have, not so much with ISO but, with companies which fail to use a quality system to improve quality...and there are many of them. One of the prime tenets of ISO is making continuing efforts to improve...some, as I said, just want the certificate on the wall.

Reply to
HLS

About six years ago one of my best suppliers went through the ISO thing. Once approved, I gave them two routine orders and never bought from them again. That piece of paper made a mess of the company's quality and delivery.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

The ISO thing is meant to document what is happening not what management is wishing might happen. Once the ISO is correctly describingthe processes it is possible to make improvements. There is a fundamental difference in mentality between manufacturers in how quality is measured. One produces the whole car and lets a team of inspectors check if it is all right. Another lets every step of the process check if previous processes have been ok and no special check is needed at the end. In general every robot will check that it has all is needed for the current car and not do anything if something is missing. A human may let quality inspection go by. So the more automated a factory is the more you can espect to get even quality out. The good thing about robots and automation is that the job stays at home and better products are made. The bad thing is people lose jobs to robots. In general for the country it is better to use robots for manufactoring than to lose the jobs to foreign countries. People used to fight bulldozers because took job from a lot of people. Something we consider silly today. I find it a bit strange that there are no big factories in US making the new batteries. It is new technology and invented in the US so why not use robots instead of foreigners? In the end robots are cheaper labor and frees humans for better things.

Reply to
Gosi

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The Union of miners support destroying the land for the sake of salaries and jobs for its members.

The rest of the population and the environment they do not care about.

"keep people poor and scared so that they remain powerless."

"justice may be slow coming to the mountains of Appalachia. But justice delayed could mean the ruin of a place that has sacrificed much for this nation, and has received next to nothing in return."

Reply to
Gosi

It is supposed to evolve to do both. If management knows what the hell it wants, and the ISO program is written so that this plan will be implemented, then the commitment to constant improvement CAN lead to a situation which yields what management wants.

In too many cases, the company makes the same old shit, perhaps with better reproducibility (or not), but it is documented to be the same old shit, as you say.

These programs CAN work, but not with disinterested management at the helm.

Quality has to be seen as "the product"; the product is not another cheapo SUV or some other short term piece of crap.

People will buy quality, if it is not priced outside their reach. People will eventually rebel against buying undependable poor quality merchandise.

GM is in there somewhere, better than the Yugo, but not as trusted (whether deservedly or not) as some other products.

We buy disposable razors with the intent to use them and throw them away after a short time.... Most of us do not accept this when we are dealing with cars.

I have spoken to a lot of younger people who used to accept that you buy a new car, use it 3-4 years, and then trade for new before the problems start. That philosophy is beginning to change.

Reply to
HLS

This is somewhat true. I would love to simply level and pave over the dealership in Livonia, MI for trying to screw me over on some repairs on my '89 16V (I yanked it out of there when they told me I would have to replace a 2-year old catcon before they'd even go any farther with troubleshooting the car; investigation at an independent shop revealed a perfectly good cat but a burned valve.) However the dealership in Annapolis, MD where I bought my '02 GTI was pretty decent; only peeve was that my car had the typical A4 window regulator problems and they wouldn't bend the rules (handed down by VWoA) to fix both of them at the same time, they'd only fix the one that was actually broken. So I had to come back a month later when the pass. side window broke. Other than that they were OK and I can't remember but I think every other service was free.

VWoA are a bunch of combusting rectums however. SWMBO got screwed out of an expensive heater core replacement on her Corrado even though the NHTSA web site said her car was covered by the recall (her core had actually failed; this wasn't a case where someone was trying to simply get a new core for insurance.)

I love VWs but my inclination is to stick with the 80's stuff and not take it to a dealership, ever.

nate

Reply to
N8N

Interesting. As for GM their plan to bring out their Volt in a few years, it is a bad joke; for the buyers who will struggle with a partitally developed car.

Reply to
Spam away

I seriously thought about "waiting" for the Volt, but I can see, based on history and the current flood of volt propaganda, that GM is once again going to RUSH an incomplete untested product to market, most likely at an elevated price in hopes of creating cash flow and once again, fixing the problems after the product is in the consumers hands.

Darn it I wish they'd STOP THAT!!!!

Willy

Reply to
Willy

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