Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense'

Page 2 of 6  
Vinnie wrote:


http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1633/hyped-hybrid-the-chevy-volt-gets-average-mileage-for-a-hybrid/

Obama Motors is selling 25,000 of the first 2 years (30,000) Volts to GE which is headed by Obama's new BFF Imelt.
Nice sale! Probably a tough negotiation in there someplace.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

About the only way they're going to move those overpriced turkeys (and Government Motors is still losing money on every one!) is 0bama forcing them down peoples' throats, and forcing them into corporate fleets is probably seen as a good place to start.
They've only had 281 voluntary Volt takers in Februrary, most likely all braindead environmentalist types. Nissan Leaf sales were even more dismal at 87 sold.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
AMuzi wrote:

Lying gets you nowhere any more. Ain't it a shame? This says it's 12,000 Volts over 5 years, and 13,000 "other" electric. http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1051446_ge-buying-25k-evs--starting-with-the-2011-chevrolet-volt
What's even more stupid is to be surprised that a company called General ELECTRIC says it is committed to buying electrically propelled cars. Even more stupid yet is to believe anything a CEO says. Duh. Ciao!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

the mpg was lousy. Now with ohc and properly timed direct injection, fuel economy has soared. A big source of fuel use is accelerating, by using the braking to charge a battery which helps with the acceleration a lot more fuel can be saved, hence the good milage of a hybrid.

mobile phone. I had one of the first digital phones this side of the pond and it's life was about 8 hours on standby (Ni-Cad). Modern phones have driven the technology so that they now last three to four days between charges. Even if batteries don't make the grade, hybridisation is a good idea, and it's price will drop as mass-production increases and competition from China forces the hand of the current major players.
--
Clive


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I don't care much about mileage. My current vehicle gets about 15 mpg and I'm perfectly happy with that.
However, something like a 1960 Rambler American with side-valve carbureted engine and overdrive transmission is capable of mileage in the 30 mpg range.

I have a 30-year-old Popular Science magazine with "10 40-mpg imported cars" on the cover. There are not many that get much better than that.

They still have a long way to go to be practical for an all-electric vehicle.

I do not believe that is the case. As I've said, I would not purchase one.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 3/3/2011 8:09 AM, Clive wrote:

The Hybrid is a bad idea because it's more complex than a conventional automobile or a full electric. However, hybrids are a needed step if most of us are going to transition to full electric. Ha ha, I have to say "most of us" on this newsgroup.
My Sonata has a wonderful engine - it's a V6 with double overhead cams and variable valve timing and it's smooth as silk with a lot of guts but I'd like to think that simpler is always better. That engine is fiendishly complex. An electric motor is a simple beast capable of high torque almost instantly and doesn't need an ignition or fuel system, has no valves or variable timing or sprockets or timing chain or lubrication system or oil changes or leaky valve covers or oil filters or exhaust system or water cooling, no cold start or PVC valves or starter needed. The reality is that something so complex is going to require a lot of maintenance and troubleshooting can be a problem if something goes wrong. For more info on this, just read the posts here.
An all electric car's drive system is gonna be a no brainer. The control system is going to be pretty sophisticated but my guess is that you'll just pull the box out and replace it if there's any problems. As it goes, living with an automobile should be a lot easier. People in the future will be surprised at how much we had to put up with in the internal combustion engine.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

torque. Are you proposing forced ventilation, self ventilation or water cooling?
--
Clive


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

My guess is that most cars will have passive cooling with liquid cooling for high performance cars. Just my guess.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In message

--
Clive


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Cooling without active fans or pumps. The Model T used passive water cooling. Harley-Davidson Panheads use passive air cooling.
The heat issues with the electric car are more due to resistive losses in the battery than losses in the motor. Active liquid cooling of the batteries has been suggested. In a lot of cases, though, just having thermal mass to smooth out the occasional large peak current demands causing brief peak heat loads turns out to be sufficient. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

through current draw, then it has greater internal resistance than is good for it, causing a voltage drop across the motor terminals, which will of course mean lower torque and top speed.
--
Clive


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Right. But what is the question?
Life is just like that. Nothing has zero resistance, and we're talking an awful lot of watts here. Battery technology improves but there is always some resistive loss. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

is so low that you can still get 300 amps to the starter terminals at 12 volts.
--
Clive


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

It is interesting to read about the batteries in Tesla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

300 amps at 12V is not even five horsepower. You want real peak current, a NiCd will do a whole lot better than a lead/acid cell because of much lower internal resistance... and a lithium stack better than that.
But you don't get 100% efficiency no matter what, and even with 99% efficiency you're still going to be dumping considerable heat just because of the number of kilowatts involved. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

resistance that gives the motor the volts and amps it wants.
--
Clive


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The six-cylinder engine in my 1975 Hornet is a marvel of simplicity and durability. In the 36 years since it was manufactured it has required no internal repairs, just service of peripheral systems which are inexpensive and simple to deal with. The 3-speed Chrysler Torqueflite transmission is still smooth and responsive and has likewise never required internal repairs.
The driveline is about as bulletproof as one could want, much more reliable and inexpensive to service overall than an array of batteries would have been over the same period of time.

To fully replace gas and diesel engines with electric motors you need BATTERIES (or some more exotic electricity source) that will allow the car to drive for hundreds of miles with lights, air conditioner, and other accessories running - on the freeway where there is virtually no stopping to take advantage of regenerative braking. You need to be able to haul trailers and heavy work loads while maintaining range. The batteries will need to be fully rechargeable within a few minutes. (People are not going to put up with waiting hours for battery chargers, especially when refueling on a trip.) You're going to need to provide some means to recharge them wherever they are, including parking lots of apartment and condo complexes. And the batteries should either be inexpensive to replace or last the life of the vehicle. (Which from my standpoint needs to be at least 20-30 years if not more.)
Until you have batteries that can do all this (and we are a long ways from that), your vision of an all-electric vehicle future is nothing more than a 1970s pipe dream of what the year 2000 will be like.

It is much more likely that people in the near future will still be using internal combustion engines. Fifty, a hundred, or a thousand years from now? Possibly by then there will be a breakthrough that will permit a truly usable, general-purpose electric vehicle. Or perhaps not. Don't know and don't care, I won't be around to worry about it; but it is a no-brainer that internal combustion will still be around at least as long as I am.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Trains are driving on electricity and there are plans to allow vehicles on the road get electricity from lines above the road similar to what trains do today.
Then you do not need very much of batteries in the vehicle itself.
It is not a question of what you want or would like to do it is more a question of what you can do when there is no more oil.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

We all just as well give up arguing, Roger won't ever "get it". Not everybody who wants a Prius is a "tree hugging eco-weenie" which BTW note how the ICE lovers are always strong burly manly men and anyone else is a weenie.
I want a Prius not for any global environmental impact, real or imagined I want it partly for the local impact but mostly for the power possibilities ala the Pri-UPS project (use the car as a near silent 5kw backup generator). I couldn't care less about AGW but what I do care about is sitting behind cars like Roger's at a red light and having to put up with his un-catalytic converter-ed exhaust. Call me selfish but it is my lungs after all (I don't smoke either).
Other than that people who go "a certain compact or subcompact from 1988 got the same MPG as a Prius" don't get it either. The Prius is a midsize built primarily for low emissions, not for MPG. The fact that it gets better MPG than a smaller vehicle, such as the Echo/Yaris (which uses the same engine) is just a bonus. That it gets better MPG than a smaller Diesel car is amazing considering the no throttle loss and more energy (and cost) per gallon of Diesel. For instance it (NHW20 US model) has a wideband front O2 sensor, a Thermos bottle (Dewar flask) that stores hot coolant to help it warm up faster, a flexible/inflatable "bladder" in the fuel tank and a filler neck seal that stops the escape of vapors that make you smell like gas, and when first started cold it drives on battery power and runs the ICE with extremely retarded ignition timing to send more heat out the exhaust manifold and help "light off" the catalytic converter faster.
Other than that I don't want the ZVW30 Prius (2010,2011-...) because IMO they FUBARed it with the interior dash/console suspended arch, they removed the Thermos bottle if favor of an exhaust heat recovery device, removed the fuel bladder, changed the hydraulic braking system, and bumped the engine from a 1.5 to a 1.8.
Until I can get an NHW20 I will just keep driving my 2nd gen Lumina 3100 with the MIL on for an EGR insufficient flow code until summer when I can pull the intake and clean the passages and replace the gaskets.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 4 Mar 2011 10:43:57 -0600, "Daniel who wants to know"

Had that last year on mine, a '97. Just pulled the EGR, put a short section of dog cable in a drill, and cleaned the port from there. I had picked up an EGR gasket at a parts store for a buck or two, but could have used the old gasket. Hardest thing was finding the dog cable. I had read that thick weed whacker cable would work, but only had thin stuff. Don't think ANY weed whacker cable would have cleared it, as it was almost solidly plugged. Then I spotted the old kinked dog cable behind a box in the garage, It's stranded, and about 3/16" to 1/4" thick. Think about having something like that when you start. Even if you pull the throttle body, you need to clean that passage..
--Vic
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.