I can assure you I won't own one either, but perhaps my children or grandchildren will. Right now, they are very expensive toys for people that want to show they are green. One day though, they may become practical and useable by many daily commuters. I just don't see in in my lifetime, which I hope to be at least 20 or 30 more years.
In 1902, many people thought the horseless carriage was just a novelty and man would never fly.
******* Price is comparable to an IC now...or whenever they are fully marketed. Priced similar to a Lexus, maybe. I dont see the advantage for the price. And the risk...It is your money, you buy whatever you want. ****Son has a Honda Insight.. Claims to regularly get 60+ mpg, and recently claimed near 80. The Insight is old technology. ***** Of course it isnt.. Based on GM's past, I would definitely NOT pay $40-60K for a new product line from them. Have been hafted by them enough that I have learned that lesson.
****** I cant say I will never own one, but I dont want one, dont see the economy of them, and have no intention of buying one.
If push came to shove, I would much rather own a small high tech diesel which could be powered on soybean oil.
Heck, I only stopped riding my bike a couple of years ago when some criminal burglarized my property.
I suspect that this will move faster than you think - at least the potential is there. It all hinges on a battery capacity that's better than what's available today. Once that point in battery development is reached, change will be rapid. Just a guess.
The electric car would seem to be dead simple as far as manufacturing goes - just junk everything connected with the engine, fuel system, ignition system, transmission, exhaust system and keep everything else. My guess is that a electric motor is going to be lighter and simpler and cheaper than a piston engine - a lot cheaper.
If history has taught us anything, it is that technology drives change whether we're ready for it or not. The reality of this world is that the majority of drivers are not piston-lovin' speed-freaking gear-heads. Most folks just want to get in a car and get to where they want to go with a minimum of fuss - they don't give a crap about internal or external combustion or electric or hampster power.
The geneva motor show 2011 is very much showing off electrical cars and look at this one
Yes, they are merely status symbols for ecofreaks who want to pretend they are "saving the planet." (Hint to stoopid hippies: "the planet" does not need saving! But I digress...)
Internal combustion is a tried and true, practical method of providing execellent measures of power and range for a vehicle that can be used for a vast array of purposes in a wide range of environments. "Recharging" is easily accomplished in a few minutes at a fueling station.
How far will your electric car go on the freeway on a hot, rainy summer night with the lights, wipers, and air conditioning going? How long does it take to recharge once the batteries run flat? How will you even recharge it at home if you live in an apartment? Can you pull a boat or RV trailer with it? Can you haul a heavy load of tools or parts to a job in the next state with it? How long will the batteries last and how much will they cost to replace?
I am not particularly impressed by hybrids either. All that complex array of technology in a Prius to deliver essentially the same miles per gallon as a 1980 VW Rabbit Diesel. I'm underwhelmed.
Feh. Until a miracle in battery technology or some other type of mobile electrical source comes into play (such as the fictional "Mister Fusion" of "Back to the Future" fame) electric vehicles will remain at best overpriced, short-range, limited-use items suitable if anything only for short inner-city runs and as status symbols that imbecilic enviro-weenies use to make themselves feel good.
Same here.
Oh, I know it is "possible." However it will never be "practical" unless there is a dramatic improvement in battery technology. This has been sought for the last 40 years (at least) and there has been remarkably little progress in that area. It's taken that long to get from "utterly and completely unpractical" to "barely usable in a limited set of circumstances."
We may ultimately get to something that actually has the flexibility and usefulness of an internal-combustion powered vehicle but I do not believe it is likely in my lifetime.
Even if and when such a thing is developed the many millions of gas and diesel powered vehicles will not disappear overnight. Not everyone will be willing or able to go out and buy an expensive new electric vehicle. Unlike other technology-driven items such as computers, cameras, and home entertainment, cars and trucks will remain high-ticket items that, unless one is wealthy, cannot simply be discarded and replaced on a whim.
So to reiterate, yes, I fully expect to still be filling up my gasoline-powered car at a filling station in 20 years time.
In message , Ed Pawlowski writes
I don't see that they're "green" at all. Electricity has to be generated somewhere and that generator uses fuel, all driving electric cars do is move the pollution to a different district.
The oil shortage and ever increasing demand is vastly surpassing supply resultin in ever higher prices.
It is more a question if there will be any stations for you to get oil in 20 years time so the situation with electrics will be reversed.
You can charge an electric vehicle anywhere there is electricity and that is most anywhere and you will not need to look for a special station for it.
Most people have electricity at home.
The US has been sleeping while Europe has been planning for this for many years.
Hybrids may have a place in history but even they are too complex and too expensive.
Volt is a hybrid even if it has been branded as an electric.
Electrical vehicles predate the combustion vehicles and they are taking over even if the production capacity is low at the moment and it will take a long time to replace the old technology.
It is really amazing though how much has happened in recent months in this area.
The warning signs have been around for decades but many people are blind and noone is as blind as a man who does not want to see.
Unfortunately for many people the whole system around them is based on driving around every day for everything.
So not only do we need to change all our thinking from oil to electric in our cars we need to get better public transport and rearrange where and how we live and all of that will take time.
It would have been better for the citizens of the US if this would have started sooner and having to do it now when they are forced to do it because the scarcity and price of oil.
Europe has been at it for decades to improve public transport and raised the price of oil with taxes to get people prepared for the future so this price hike coming now is not as much of a problem for us in Europe and just take a look at this years geneva motor show and you will see a lot of electrical cars available.
For the idiot greenies that is sufficent for them to feel good about themselves and lord it over the rest of us.
Our electrical generation plants are for the most part coal fired in the USA. This process may be as cheap as we have but is not as good as it gets.
There is some hydroelectric, of course, but not as in Scandinavia.
And, we shut the door on atomic power plants a long time back. It will take time to make up the lost ground, if we even reopen that technology.
We are diddling with wind power and solar, but that is also in its early stages.
I dont see that there is any clear answer, especially in a country where no one wants to cooperate with anyone else, and where the government is run by buffoons with their hands out.
The problem is that this was the state we were in around 1920, when electric cars were very popular for driving around town, but severely limited in range by the lead-acid batteries.
Today battery density is a whole lot better than it was in 1920, but it's still the limiting factor in spite of a whole lot of research.
Right. The fancy stuff is all in the drive electronics and the charge electronics, and electronics have become very cheap. "Anything made of silicon will eventually cost a dime" as an instructor of mine used to say.
The only part that is expensive and difficult with current technology is the battery, but that still remains a big deal.
Sure, but the other thing history has taught us is that most people who make predictions about the future are wrong. So I try to refrain from making predictions, especially when my own money is involved.
--scott
And/or move it to a different material, yes. But that's something useful and important.
You also do get a little more efficiency from the electric because the electric motor is about as efficient at delivering low power as it is at full throttle, but the transmission losses may make up for that.
That's why money needs to be invested in reducing transmission losses and cleaner power production as well as in batteries. These things don't just benefit drivers either, they benefit all electric power users.
--scott
But, but, but, that Tin Lizzie won't go up that thar muddy path over yonder like my 'ol Nellie. And besides, why should I look around for that expensive gas-o-line fluid when grass and hay is free? Oats is cheap too.
For the Volt as far as you want to go. On all electric, probably about 25-30 miles. Then the IC engine kicks in.
Volt batteries don't go flat. IC engine kicks in before that happens. Recharge to 100% and 25-50 mile range without IC takes 4-5 hours at 220V,
8-12 hours at 110V.How
You don't buy a Volt unless you can recharge it. Common sense prevails.
Can
You buy a gas guzzler for that. Again, common sense prevails.
Can you haul a heavy load of
Why would you do that? You can do that with a beat up $500 Toyota Corolla. Why pay +$30k for an electric? And yet once again, common sense is victorious.
How long will
8 year, 100K mile warranty for the Volt. Same for the Leaf. Nobody knows what they will cost to replace. The Prius has fostered a battery aftermarket and from my reading a reman can cost as low as $1300, and new costs $2200. Sometimes only a cell module needs replacement. Economy of scale and market forces will rule. How long does the engine in a Camry last? How much will it cost to replace it? Anyway, why do you care about battery cost? You've said you would never buy an electric car.This is for you then.
Yep, know the feeling. I would shake my head in disgust when I saw people using those brick cell phones and paying $3-400 per month for that crap.
There's been no real incentive to improve batteries to propel cars. Looming $5.00 a gallon gas is now providing the incentive. Paisan, open your eyes. Battery technology has now advanced to where an major automaker is selling all the Volts they can produce. What you or I think or buy means nothing. There's only one real question to be answered. Can GM recover their investment, and make a profit on sales? That's all that counts.
thats a good plan except for the way car insurance works, you will have to pay for insurance for both vehicles and you will never save enough gas to cover that cost...... if the gov't wants us to start using commuter cars for commuting, they need to fix that problem.
Mark
In message , Roger Blake writes
Just think back to the days of side valved engines with carburators, the mpg was lousy. Now with ohc and properly timed direct injection, fuel economy has soared. A big source of fuel use is accelerating, by using the braking to charge a battery which helps with the acceleration a lot more fuel can be saved, hence the good milage of a hybrid.
Batteries have come on by leaps and bounds since the big advance of the mobile phone. I had one of the first digital phones this side of the pond and it's life was about 8 hours on standby (Ni-Cad). Modern phones have driven the technology so that they now last three to four days between charges. Even if batteries don't make the grade, hybridisation is a good idea, and it's price will drop as mass-production increases and competition from China forces the hand of the current major players.
In message , Roger Blake writes
At the moment we're paying $9.91 for an imperial gallon. When you start paying those prices, you might have a change of heart.
That's because you permit your government to impose punitive taxes on gasoline. Americans may not be quite as complacent about such a move. In any event, even if gas prices rose to European socialist levels here I would still not purchase a hybrid or electric vehicle.
I don't care much about mileage. My current vehicle gets about 15 mpg and I'm perfectly happy with that.
However, something like a 1960 Rambler American with side-valve carbureted engine and overdrive transmission is capable of mileage in the 30 mpg range.
I have a 30-year-old Popular Science magazine with "10 40-mpg imported cars" on the cover. There are not many that get much better than that.
They still have a long way to go to be practical for an all-electric vehicle.
I do not believe that is the case. As I've said, I would not purchase one.
The Hybrid is a bad idea because it's more complex than a conventional automobile or a full electric. However, hybrids are a needed step if most of us are going to transition to full electric. Ha ha, I have to say "most of us" on this newsgroup.
My Sonata has a wonderful engine - it's a V6 with double overhead cams and variable valve timing and it's smooth as silk with a lot of guts but I'd like to think that simpler is always better. That engine is fiendishly complex. An electric motor is a simple beast capable of high torque almost instantly and doesn't need an ignition or fuel system, has no valves or variable timing or sprockets or timing chain or lubrication system or oil changes or leaky valve covers or oil filters or exhaust system or water cooling, no cold start or PVC valves or starter needed. The reality is that something so complex is going to require a lot of maintenance and troubleshooting can be a problem if something goes wrong. For more info on this, just read the posts here.
An all electric car's drive system is gonna be a no brainer. The control system is going to be pretty sophisticated but my guess is that you'll just pull the box out and replace it if there's any problems. As it goes, living with an automobile should be a lot easier. People in the future will be surprised at how much we had to put up with in the internal combustion engine.
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