Conversation over -- no more GM cars

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I was soured on GM cars by the quality of my 2001 LeSabre. It has more than normal repairs. Looking at a few other brands, I was still going back to
the Buick as a possibility. No more.
Today, we stopped for lunch and when I got back into the car, I accidentally hit the rear window button and the window came down about an inch. I pushed the button to put it back up, heard a crunch, and that was it. It did not go up and, in fact, just fell down.
This is the third window in a year, the second in two weeks. As soon as the rain stops, I'm going to removed the door panel and prop it up with a piece of wood. I never use the back windows anyway, so it is a good solution.
Power windows failed Heated seat failed (they want $575 to repair) Transmission overhaul Wheel bearings Second set of front rotors Oxygen sensor Air pump making noise, failure immanent
Most expensive car, in repair costs I've ever owned next to a Mercedes. Dealers not interested in a trade in at reasonable allowance either. This car "should" last another 75,000 miles, but it will probably fall apart in a few more weeks.
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Your Buick has the 3800 V6. One of the best engines ever according To Ward's Automotive. Good for 300K miles with regular maintenance. I see a lot of poor people around here in NE Ohio driving '86 to mid 90's full size GM cars -- like the LeSabre, Electra, Park Avenue, Olds 88/98, Pontiac Bonneville, etc.. The bodies are usually beat to hell but the 3800 engines still run well. I never see them smoke or hear them knock. Sorry about your experience. Did GM go halfway with you on some of the repairs? We have a '99 Olds 88 with the same engine. Great car. Lots of power, comfort, handles well, room for 6 if needed, great gas mileage. Only minor problem it had was taken care of under extended warranty. We bought it with 45K miles a year ago and bought the ext. warranty for $800.
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Read further, Grapple. He has the Series II 3800. It comes with a built-in probability to fail due to the plastic manifold situation. Series I didn't do that.
And, when it fails, if you are out of warranty with respect to mileage or time, GM tells you to suck wind.
A decent engine with an Achille's heel.
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So does every other manufacture when the warranty expires. ;)
mike

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grappletech wrote:

than $800 in repairs over the warranty. Another way of looking at it is that you paid $800 in repairs up front.
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So far, the engine is good. I expect, however, in a year or so I'll be holding on to a little red wagon behind it as the rest of the car falls apart. I also have a '91 Regal with the 3800 series I that is going strong, and overall a better car than the '01.

They offered me $500 off the price of a new car for the failed heated seat. The car was two winters old but had more than 36k on the odometer. It would not have made economic sense to buy a new car at that time. At that point, everything else was working well and I was still happy.
I know Mike Hunter will probably chime in here about all the GM cars and how people love them, but I'm looking at a car that I want to last for a long time. It was good for the first 85,000 miles. I had a plan to make this car the secondary vihicle of the household and it would get very little miles while I drive the new one. I was going to start shopping for a Lucerne last April. I had some money saved for a down payment. Problem was, though, the down payment money went towards the transmission a month before. Another $850 in repairs in June have now postponed the new car until January.
A 50% failure rate for power windows between two cars is not very good. Considering it is the same problem in both cars, built at different times with different (but similar) mechanisims, I'd conclude the cable is a design flaw. It could easily be improved, but that would at 20 to the cost of a new car.
And talk about timing, an hour before this broke I was looking at some cars at a Nissan dealer. Saw a sharp looking Altima there, but I'm going to wait for the '07's to see how they are.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Manufacturers stopped making those about 20 years ago. Take your window motor and regulator for example... 20 years ago they were made out of metal, were about the size of a can of spray paint, weighed 6 pounds, and lasted at least ten years. Now they are plastic, about the size of a spray can lid, weigh 6 ounces, and last 3 years. Your best bet is Lexus.
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"=?x-user-defined?Q??= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q??=" <" =?x-user-defined?Q??= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q??="@houston.rr.com> wrote in

Or a '64 Dodge Dart 170 sedan. I bought from original owner out in CA in the early 90's for $800. No rust. 80K miles. All original. 225ci slant 6 with push button Torqueflite automatic tranny. Radio delete. steel wheels with tiny "Dodge" hubcaps. Just plastic on the floors, no carpet. No AC, No PS. Very simple car, always started, ran great. The dashboard was very thick guage metal. Shiny and new looking, like it looked in 1964. The sheetmetal on that entire car's body was very, very thick, unlike today's cars. In the middle of the steering wheel hub was a decorative cap commenerating Dodge's 50 years making automobiles -- 1914 to 1964. I regret selling it.
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Paul wrote:

Tell that to both the owners of a company I used to work for whose Lexus' cost them more in repairs/maintenance than the payment each month.
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Now cut that out, anti GM comment only. LOL
mike hunt

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You mean back when the warranty was 12,000 mile or one year? If he does buy a Lexus he should look out for $2,500 dash panels that die after the warranty expires as well as the $1,500 rebuilt power steering pumps they eat up. ;)
mike hunt
" Paul " <"=?x-user-defined?Q??= Paul

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He has been in my kill file for so long, I had almost forgotten him .
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Kill the messenger I say
mike

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grappletech wrote:

Most of the 3800s are reliable engines, but the rest of the vehicle often seems to self destruct in the 5-10 year old range with GM vehicles. Window motors, wiper motors, seats, interior trim and the like seem designed to get through the warranty period but not a lot more.
John
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My brother has an 1980 Mercedes Diesel wagon. The interior bits and pieces and whatnots all still function and work and aren't falling apart. I love that car! He bought it from a retired wealthy physician for like $800. The doctor had saved every receipt for every oil change and repair and also had meticulousy recorded it all in a journal, dating back to 1980. It has like 200K miles but still runs perfect. He runs veggie oil in it (captured from deep fryers from restaurants). Costs next to nothing per gallon. Pollutes a lot less than a regular gas or petroleum diesel car and the exhaust has a nice french fry smell. Now, to talk him out of it!!!!!! and into my hands.....
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I hope he is not from Pennsylvania. There was a front page article in the Allentown Pa Morning Call about a year ago about a guy that was using free cooking oil that he collected from fast food restaurants. He was an engineer and designed a filtering system to clean the stuff before putting it in his old MB. Shortly thereafter there was a small article on a back page that the was being billed by the state for eleven years, at 15K miles per year, for back road use fuel taxes, at 56.7c a gallon, that he failed to report to the state. LOL
mike

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Wow....that'd be a bill for about $2700, but the guy in PA still saved a ton of money for fuel over the years. Leave it up to the gov't to punish someone for having iniative and for using clean burning veggie oil (that would have been thrown away anyway) in their car. My brother lives out west.
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It was not the governments fault. Road use Fuel taxes must be paid buy all drivers and he failed to do so. 56 cents is cheap compared the price of diesel fuel, around $3.10 a gallon, in Pa which is currently more than regular gas of around $2,89
mike hunt

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We can assume things like that only happen to GM vehicles, NEVER to an import, right? LOL
mike hunt

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or other NA vehicles?
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