Dealing With The Dealer

GM sells far more vehicle in the US now, at a 30%, share than they did at the highest share, when it was at 52% in the early fifties. The answer lies in the number of model now available to consumers from over a dozen manufactures, not anything manufactures do or do not do to the the buyers of their vehicles. Toyota has the number one selling car in the US but is number one on the list of the worst dealers, according to customer surveys.

I stopped buying from Toyota after a number of Lexus' because the dealer was taking me for granted as a customer. For some reason they seem to think you are an idiot if you don't buy another Lexus. I switched to an American luxury brand that has proven to be just as good a car at 2/3 the price. In fact I saved so much on the first one I bought from them in 1999, I was able to buy one of the same manufacturers sporty convertibles with the savings. My new dealer likes me as a customer and treats me just fine. It is after all the dearer that you do business with and the one that provides your warranty work and service, not the manufacture. I have purchased five more new vehicles from him and have another 2005 on order.

mike hunt

"James C. Reeves" wrote:

Reply to
RustyFender
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If you think you are getting a big discount on domestics, think again. The imports are generally much higher in price than their domestic competitors comparable size and equipped vehicles. The domestics have raised their prices over the past few years closer to the prices of their import competitors, to allow them to discount back to the price they intended to sell them. You sited Ford. For example the V8 Grand Marquis GS, very nicely equipped with a leather gut, has an MSRP just short of 27K. Since it is a RWD car Ford can build and sell it at about the same MSRP of the much smaller FWD V6 Camry. Ford offers a $4,000 rebate on the GM. The only problem is the exact same car had an MSRP of 23K three years ago and a $1,000 rebate. The Escalade that was once

50K is now 60K but but with a rebate. There was a time when the only way you could buy a Toyota was to pay MSRP plus some smoke an mirrors, not today. Toyota dealers in comparative markets will sell at invoice and Toyota is offering 'cash back' or a rebate. According to 'Automotive News' Toyota is trying to stop dealers from offering special discount by not paying their half of co-op advertising costs for ads that offer 'blow out' or 'below invoice' pricing" ;)

mike hunt

"James C. Reeves" wrote:

Reply to
RustyFender

Interesting how toyota has a larger market valuation than gm, ford, and chrysler COMBINED! And makes more profit than any of these companies. In business terms, biggest is not the best, the one who makes the most money, has the highest margins, and the highest overall profit is the winner.

Example, you sell 20 widgets and make a total profit of $3. I sell only 10 widgets but make $5 in profit. Who is better off?

And the fact is companies like toytota and honda have been gaining market share at gm's expense for so long and continue to do so.

Does anyone here remember 'The road to redemption'. Or

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Just my 2 cents!

Reply to
mark575757

No, you're right on track. And I do remember the road to redemption campaign and GM's marketing people should be fired. Imagine trying to sell using a negative and "admitting" that GM's "quality" will never compete. Who approved that crap anyway?!

Reply to
James C. Reeves

You make THE point....it's the way the customer is treated that counts at least as much (maybe more) than the quality of the product.

| "James C. Reeves" wrote: | >

| > Market share is a good barometer though for companies to user for competive | > comparison purposes. It answers the important management question as to which | > companies are connecting with the customer. Now if it could answer the whys | > and hows question!!! GM makes some of the best products out there (certainly | > better than Toyota!). But there is something seemingly pervasive happening | > that is causing "share" to continually erode. My personal opinion is it is how | > GM treats the customers that do have problems. Toyota (and in my personal | > experience, Chrysler) really steps up in that area. GM falls down in that | > area...which will have a fairly significant alienating effect on the customer | > no matter how good the product is.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

Yes... I believe that would be their defense lawyers. If you hire a Lawyer of your own you'll get a response rather quickly from all parties. (I believe the term misrepresentation isn't a word that is appreciated by defense council)

Often times yes.

Take away the Taxpayer safety net & the US auto industry would sort itself out (though it might be in bankruptcy courts)

Reply to
Full_Name

From what I hear they're about to increase their market share even more by finishing the takeover of Fiat.

Ahh.... GM design finesse with Fiat reliability..

Now this is US progress!

Reply to
Full_Name

I believe you missed the point, GM is not losing to ANYONE, they are number one in total sales in the US and worldwide. GM sales numbers are going up, not down, as some would suggest. GM's sales numbers, like just about every other manufacture, are going UP. What is happening in the US is the market is expanding, among all brands, some more than others, however. We often read of percentage increases or decreases per manufacture but that can be deceiving since the percentages are not on similar total sales. Toyota for instance sells the number on car, but Ford sells the number one vehicle and at a rate nearly twice that of the number one car and GM outsells every other manufacture in number of cars and trucks sold and Ford in second. Toyota in reality is at only about 10% of the total number of vehicles sold in the US. The market growth is in trucks not cars. Comparing apples to apples would be a better way of determining who is doing what to whom.

mike hunt

snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

Reply to
RustyFender

I suppose with that extra $5,000.00 they can pay dividends to shareholders & fix the cars that show up at the dealers with defects instead of fighting with their customers.

Companies dealing with the end consumer have to realize that the customers worth keeping aren't expecting perfection. Just decent service once a product has been purchased.

Trailer parks are full of people who are looking for the lowest price damn the service or quality. Mercedes tended to get customers for life by looking after their customers.

No product is 100% perfect every time, we understand that. But be damned if I'm going to ever go back to a dealer who tells me CV joints wearing out at 30K is my fault.

Reply to
Full_Name

Manufactures deal with their dealer it is their dealers that deal with the buyers not the manufacture. If you have a problem with your vehicle and the dealer is not taking care of you, find another dealer who will. If you tend to believe customer surveys, you will not buy a Toyota. Toyotas dealer network is constantly at the top of the list for poor customer service.

mike hunt

Full_Name wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

GM corporate does have a consumer call center. So it isn't exactly right. But they might as not have it since it's useless in my opinion.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

ALL manufactures have call centers. They are contract centers, staffed by people that do not even work in the industry, that have no authority to offer you a solution to you problem, particularly if the vehicle is off warranty. They take you complaint, record and categorize it, then send it on to the DEALER for action or a response. ;)

mike hunt

"James C. Reeves" wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

That explaions a lot! ;-)

THAT explains a lot too! ;-)

Back to the dealer huh? That sounds like the GM process engineers have designed a little thing we like to call in the technology business as a "infinate loop".

THAT explains a lot too!!!

In my opinion, they're set up to fail if that is the process

My experience with Chrysler has been much different than that. The call center manages (somehow) to make (or get) decisions (from some approval authority that is outside of the "loop"?) and pass that to the Dealer to carry out. But that was 15 years ago...maybe it's changed now at Chrysler too.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

Those centers work for more than one manufacture and many are not even in the US. There is a call center in Wilkes-Barre Pa that handles calls for both automotive, appliances manufactures and others. I hear they take calls for companies like Toyota, GE, Dell, the VA and Fruit-of-Loom

mike hunt

"James C. Reeves" wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

And some of those are outsourcing to India, I hear! :-( Somehow, the old adage "you get what you pay for" factors into this situation.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

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