Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

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who wrote:


You know what is stupid about building the cheap cars with crap reliability? That's the first impression many young buyers get of a car company! If you buy a Cobalt when you are 18 and it's a piece of crap why in the world would you consider GM when you have a little more money to spend? You are gonna look elsewhere because of the bad experience.
GM doesn't seem to get that.
b
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wrote:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
GM seems to have forgotten that proverb, along with,
You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.
Charles of Schaumburg
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n5hsr wrote:

That expression has been revised. It's now " fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." (I'm a fan of George Bush, but that was still funny, and embarrassing. I guess the Who helped with the re-write of the clich.) :)
Bill of Farmville
--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
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"who" <...

If I were in the market for a large vehicle (minivan or truck) I'd head straight for domestic dealers. The Japanese haven't mastered those all-American vehicles. I see *so* many ancient Ford trucks on the road; sometimes rusty, but still spry. What's really cool is when the owner has invested in detailing them. Nothing cooler-looking, IMO; especially if it's bright red.
:-)
Natalie
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yeah. That's right. That's why Honda spent FIVE YEARS selling Odysseys at list price plus. That's why GM has ABANDONED the minivan market, period--and told the world so.
Face it: the Americans made their mark selling big, rwd, body-on-frame vehicles. When it came to changing that, to selling small, efficient, front-drive vehicles, the Americans fell flat on their faces. Still do.
The Americans turned on the marketing machine to solve their problem: they convinced stupid people that the "SUV" was the way to go. This allowed them to continue to build and sell big, rwd, body-on-frame vehicles that they knew how to build and sell.
That they were selling this to the former station wagon market, and that they abandoned the station wagon--well, that's the hand they'd rather you not look at. Just like a magician, they want you to look at the other hand, the one holding the leather-clad truck.
So Suzy Stupidmom is convinced that she needs a full-size truck with a built-on cap and leather seats to transport her Precious to daycare.
When the world can no longer support that model, what will the American carmakers do?
They can fuck off and die.
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"Elmo P. Shagnasty" ...

I still see quite a few of them on the road, though hubby swore them off because they were just too "middle-class" for him, whatever that means. I think he just doesn't like the cliche.

Right, but the only way to rebound in that market, which is probably most of the vehicles sold, they simply *have* to think outside those lines.

We never bought into the SUV thing - hubby considered a king-cab type vehicle, but decided it was just not practical for a then-growing family of four. He still may get a truck when the kids are out of the house. (he'd go domestic for that)

Yeah - that was quite a fiasco. Wal-Mart sells the cheapest gas in this area, and if you buy it with a gift card, you get another 3 cents per gallon off of the already rock-bottom price (probably because they figure if they get you in the store to buy the card, you'll pick up something else)

I don't know that it's the moms that bought the big trucks. I seldom see women driving those. Minivans I see are almost always driven by women.

I hope they get with the program.

So, no slack at all...
:-)
Natalie
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

I'll buy that. Let's see - who buys SUV's? Hillary, Jesse, ...
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

But Chrysler still dominates it, as it has done since inventing the segment in 1994.

Horse shit. Don't equate "American" with "Cadillac." The last body-on-frame Dodge or Plymouth was built in 1959. The last body-on-frame Chrysler product was the 1967 Imperial, all the others having transitioned to unibody in '60.

Yeah. Right. That's really funny since both GM and Chrysler had a full range of front-drives nearly 10 years before toyota quit trying to sell rear-wheel-drive "economy" cars.
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wrote:

Excepting trucks and SUVs of course.

I am not sure what you mean by a full range of FWDs. Oldsmobile sold the Tornado, a large FWD car starting in 1966 (1966 model) and the "X Cars" starting in 1980 (1980 models). Chrysler sold the Omni and Horizons starting in 1978. The "K"cars showed up in 1980 (1981 models). Why are you leaving out Ford? The Fiesta, sold in the US starting in 1977 (1978 Model) was also FWD. The US Escort was a FWD car introduced in 1980 (1981 Model). Interestingly, Ford had plans to do a small FWD car for the US in the early 60's but Lee Iacocca killed that because he felt it would not sell in the US.
Ed
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C. E. White wrote:

I left out Ford because I couldn't remember when the Esquirt came out (I don't count the Festiva, it was a pile of junk, and imported from Asia anyway). But yeah, Ford had the Escort, Taurus/Sable, and Tempo/Topaz by the mid 80s. That's a compact, a midsize, and a fullsize, or a "full range" of cars and Toyota really didn't make the jump to FWD until almost 1990.
Actually, I hate FWD in many ways (as Some-O will certainly remind me ;-) but I was challinging the statement above which claimed:
>>>When it came to changing that, to selling small, efficient, >>>front-drive vehicles, the Americans fell flat on their faces. >>>Still do.
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I did not say Festiva - I said Fiesta. The Fiesta was from Europe. The ones sold in the US were assembled in Germany. My sister got a new one in 1978, and I bought it from her in 1984. I drove it for 3 years. It was a great little car (the car had around 150k miles when I sold it). As for the Festiva (they were built by Kia). I never owned one, but one of my Mother's neighbors does. He drives about 120 miles per day to and from his job. He has been doing this for years. His Festiva has over 250,000 miles and has been completely trouble free. I can't see how it gets the pile of junk rating. Did you have a bad experience with one? As far as I am concerned it is no where near as good as a Fiesta, but I think it must be pretty reliable judging by the one I have knowledge of.
Ed
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I'm sure the above was just a typo, but mini-vans were from the 80's not the 90's.
Jim (Had an 85 Caravan)
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jim wrote:

Yes, it was a typo. As you probably know "8" and "9" are pretty close on the keyboard. The first minivan was the '84 Plymouth Voyager/Dodge Caravan.
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on Thursday 20 September 2007 06:46 am, someone posing as Steve took a rock and etched into the cave:

I've heard those vans often take on Z28s.
http://www.turbovan.net/van.html
LOL!
--
www.perfectreign.com

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Let's talk profit on those, shall we?
I bet the Chrysler salesmen were drooling at the idea of what their Honda counterparts were doing for five years--selling at list plus.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

He doesn't have to, when he moves 4 Caravans for every Oddity sold.
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YES.
YES & NO. Since 1994, but not since VW invented the minivan long before that.
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wrote:

Basically the VW created the minivan in 1950. They didn't call it that, of course, but the Type 2 is one of the most compact people and cargo carriers for its size at the time. There were a lot of attempts to copy it, such as the Fiat Multiplia, but none so successful. They make something called a Eurovan today, but it's a far cry from the original Microbus.
Charles of Schaumburg
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Remember the VW "pickup" that was actually a flatbed with fold down sides with a Microbus nose?
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wrote:

Yep, the first compact pickup. Got taken out in the tarrif 'Chicken Wars' in the 1950's. VW sold only the Microbus in the US after that, but still sold the pickup and the rest of the line elsewhere.
Charles of Schaumburg
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