Does GM have anything Stylish Coming Out?

Hundreds of thousands of new Camry owners every year, decide that 4-cylinder Camrys have suitable power. You don't get to define what's "underpowered." Just because you need a V8 to validate yourself as a man doesn't mean everyone else has that problem.

Of course, it helps to build a good 4-cylinder engine. Toyota and Honda build excellent motors, using DOHC and VVT technologies and using them well. GM? Their V6s are pushrod engines that don't develop the power or fuel economy of the smaller displacement Japanese engines.

Upscale, GM has trouble competing, too. The V6 Avalon is quicker than the V8 Buick Lucerne. So what good is "Northstar power?"

Reply to
DH
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Remember to mark the Vibe down in the Toyota column.

Toyota is still working on the truck market. When they figure it out, GM may well cease to be.

Worldwide, GM will soon be number 2 to Toyota.

Oh, and Toyota's making bags of money doing what they're doing. GM wishes it could be Toyota.

Reply to
DH

Research torque, WBMA ;)

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Toyota may well take the lead worldwide . GM does not generally compete in the midget car market. However GM, like Toyota, is building plants in China to make small cars for that growing market. I was referring to the worlds largest market and that is the US where Toyota is still behind GM and Ford where obviously they are building and selling more of the kinds of vehicles buyers want to buy..

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Upscale, GM has trouble competing, too. The V6 Avalon is quicker than the V8 Buick Lucerne. So what good is "Northstar power?"

Research "quicker," WBMA.

Buick is trying to sell on cylinder count. Who cares how many cylinders it has? Toyota is selling based on performance. All other things being equal, I'll take the quicker car. Of course, all other things aren't equal, when I take the Toyota, I'll also get much better fuel economy. You could research "better fuel economy," too, while you're at it.

Reply to
DH

Detroit would have failed miserably on building a box. Probably a personality thing, but it seems as though a lot of the people that buy ugly imported cars won't buy an American car anyway. I don't think it was much of an opportunity.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

GM doesn't compete in the midget car market? That's true. The Aveo is offered by GM but you're correct, it does not compete.

GM would like to compete in that market.

It's also certainly true that Toyota is well behind GM in the US in unit sales. Which one makes money on each car? Which one is selling more units closer to MSRP?

Reply to
dh

I looked at the AVEO in the showroom. Nice little urban/suburban car. But priced like GM doesn't want to sell any.

Reply to
Anonymous

Wow, what a typo. I kind of came across sounding like an idiot there. I meant to type, I have a lot of respect for the *3.8* family.

makes a lot more sense if you read it that way.

nate

Nate Nagel wrote:

Reply to
N8N

The Aveo is a Suzuki, built in a former Daewoo plant in Korea. The only country where it is sold, as a GM model, is in the US with a Chevy emblem on the hood. The pricing starts at $9.995. In other counties it is sold as a Suzuki for thousands less ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Toyota said Friday that its August U.S. vehicle sales rose 17 percent from a year earlier, while Ford's sales dropped 11.6 percent and DaimlerChrysler's sales fell 3.2 percent.

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Toyota is the leader

Mike Hunter wrote:

Reply to
Gosi

Not quite. Here is the data per the WSJ:

August 2006 US Sales Summary:

TRUCK/SUV CHANGE CARS CHANGE TOTAL GM 206,798 4.0% 156,723 3.9% 363,521 Ford 157,311 (21%) 97,801 8.5% 255,112 Toyota 96,034 13% 144,144 20% 240,178 Chrysler 144,269 (1.2%) 34,896 (15%) 179,165 Honda 69,385 15% 81,868 (15%) 151,253 Nissan 37,066 (11%) 52,782 3.9% 89,848

One lesson here is that GM managed a small gain in truck sales into a down market while Ford got killed with it's truck line up. Toyota and Honda continue to significantly grow their share of the Truck market. Nissan's efforts to capture a bigger piece of the truck pie are falling flat.

Honda is getting spanked a bit in car sales due to supply shortages of the high fuel economy Fit and Civic models while the Accord is now getting a bit old for a Japanese design (introduced in 2003). Toyota brought out the 2007 all-new Camry early and probably pulled some sales from Honda.

John

Reply to
John Horner

These are US figures

Toyota is do> Gosi wrote:

Reply to
Gosi

I'm tired of hearing all of these pencil-necked geeks praise Toyota and Honda. I drove cars for 2 years for many different auto dealerships (on dealer deliveries/special deliveries) and drove tons of Toyotas, Hondas, Pontiac, Chevy, Dodge, Ford, etc.. I drove some of these cars on 1000 mile trips. I drove all of these cars you're comparing and slapping jaw about. The domestic cars are just as nice as the Japanese cars. I suggest driving all of these cars for thousands of miles before slapping jaw about them.

Reply to
grappletech

You will be hearing a lot more because the sales of Toyota/Honda will be going up

GM/Ford will be going down until they suddenly stop - bankrupt

It will be very interesting to see what happens then

Probably just more of what is already happening - closures of plants

This is the american dream > I'm tired of hearing all of these pencil-necked geeks praise Toyota and

Reply to
Gosi

If you think GM is going to go bankrupt, you really need to pull your head out of your ass.

Reply to
80 Knight

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Delphi Corp. Chief Executive Officer Steve Miller said General Motors Corp., his biggest customer, will have to file for bankruptcy

The very existence of GM, Ford Motor Co. and many Detroit- area auto suppliers is threatened by the steady increase in wages, health-care costs and pensions that the United Auto Workers union has won for its members since 1947, he said. Retirement costs were manageable when workers retired at age 65 and died five years later; they're debilitating to companies when workers retire at 50 and live 40 more years, Miller said.

Delphi's bankruptcy stems from ``the fundamental problems that have crippled the domestic auto industry: an inflexible and uncompetitively expensive labor union, along with a toxic relationship between automaker and supplier,'' said Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Chris Ceraso said in a research note.

Rick Wagoner, GM's chief executive, has been negotiating with the UAW to lower health-care costs and retiree benefits. Those costs, GM says, add more than $1,500 to the cost of every car and truck sold in the U.S.

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GM bankruptcy fears rising on Wall Street

80 Knight wrote:
Reply to
Gosi

Several times financial institutions have made statements that GMs bankruptcy is all but assured. Same for Ford.

GM has kept the wolf at the gate, so far, but only time will tell. I would not buy GM stock, although if they manage to survive, it could be a way to make a lot of money.

I have less confidence in Ford. I think they will probably file bankruptcy sooner or later, but will continue under reorganization or maybe even be picked off by a large international company.

IF the American people really get challenged on fuel, etc, then GM and Ford may both go down, since about the only thing that is profitable to them is the gas guzzler segment of trucks and SUVs.

By the way, drove a Volvo (Ford) the last few weeks and it was a good experience. Taught me not to buy one. In typical American fashion, there was too much electronic cockiedoodie, from the on dash information system to the nearly unusable heating and cooling controls. The radio, even, was too complicated and poorly thought out. The little 2 litre diesel engine was powerful enough and very economical, indicating an average of about 40 mpg, and instantaneous values up to nearly 60-70 mpg. The killer here was the 6 speed manual transmission which was difficult to use with confidence. Get that baby in the wrong gear and the diesel dies...and you have to move fast to get it restarted and into the traffic stream.

Now to see if GM has screwed up SAAB in a similar way.

Reply to
<HLS

Your links might mean more if they were actually recent articles. And I couldn't possibly care less what you think of GM, or it's future. GM will bounce back. Too many lives depend on it, and you don't stay #1 for THAT many years and then be overtaken. Toyota may take over as #1 for a little while, but GM will bounce back. Watch and see. The General will rise again.

Reply to
80 Knight

I too have less confidence in Ford, but I think they just might make it as well.

Thing is though that people with enough money will still buy the big SUV's, regardless of gas prices. I'm not one of them, but some will.

This is where you and I differ greatly. I love my electronics. My SSEi Bonneville has everything you can think of, and I love it. People get in it at night time (after never having been in one before), and say it looks like a jet c*ck-pit. I love it. Auto headlights, heat/cooling, HUD, she has it all, and I mastered the use of it in under 2 minutes. If you don't like electronics, I can respect that, but I (as well as a lot of others) do.

I've actually never driven a SAAB. Let me know how it goes for you after you take one out.

Reply to
80 Knight

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