Don't buy used GM cars - no warranty anymore

The company did the math and decided the cost of this was more than the value of the good will. Especially since, if they let this one through then there will be others. Get REAL expensive real quick.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman
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ISTR there is plenty of case law saying that people who play the shell corporation game, and move assets between succeeding corporations without a clear paper trail, lose their immunity from suits against their old companies. IOW, the judge said 'who the hell do you think you are kidding, here?' They were not really corporations, they were thinly disguised DBAs.

Standard disclaimer- IANAL, but I did have 60+ hours of business and contract law back in college, and lotsa 3-day-wonder courses during my career since then.

Reply to
aemeijers

Huh? GMs bond holders were thinly disguised DBAs? Dealerships?

Reply to
krw

Pay attention- the GM board of directors, as the nominal owners and operators of the 'old' GM.

Reply to
aemeijers

I still don't understand what that has to do with the bond holders or dealers who had their property seized.

Reply to
krw

What property? All they lost were now-worthless franchise agreements or bonds. It wasn't seized- it ceased to exist. Nobody else got it. The dealers who were cut loose still owned the property, in most cases, unless GM's real estate arm or similar was leasing it to them.

Just like if a Ma'n'Pa company goes belly up, any unsecured loans they have out from creditors near the end of the line, are now worthless scraps of paper.

Try the same thing with markers you have out to a bookie or loan shark, and you will be able to predict the weather with your knees and knuckles the rest of your life. If they can't get their money, they use you as an example to all the others.

Reply to
aemeijers

Bond holder tried to enforce their contract with GM, but Obama instructed the courts to let GM welsh. Anyone who lends GM money now is insane. OMG (Obama Must Go) and Bernanke needs to be fired before I would lend money in the USA. You might be better off in Venezuela thna the USA right now as a lender.

Reply to
Canuck57

Actually not. THe majority of holdings were mutuals in 401Ks and pension plans. Just GM screwing Americans where it counts.

Reply to
Canuck57

GM was property. The dealership was property. It was seized.

Property.

Bullshit. GM continued to operate with new owners (unions and government).

Nonsense.

The franchise agreement was property.

Not at all. The first-class bond holders are in line, *way* ahead of other creditors, certainly unions.

What a moronic analogy. Though with Obama and his minions, you may have something.

Reply to
krw

Not really. These are franchises and they weren't renewed. Not at all unusual in bankruptcy proceedings. Not really all that much different than Borders, for instance, getting out of leases. This is one of the few standard things that happened, to my mind.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

Auto dealer franchieses are not licenses to print money, they are contracts between two parties and there are clauses in them that allow the manufacturer to terminate under many different conditions. There was a recent situation near here where the dealership took advantage of someone with less than perfect mental capacity, selling her a car when she came in to get her old car repaired. The manufacturer terminated their franchise agreement and took bank the inventory that wasn't paid for. Another dealer group bought the franchise rights and renamed it within weeks.

Typically the manufacturer doesn't have anything to do with the real estate. They may have an agreement about branding and signage for the location, but the dealer owns or leases the location. Some dealerships who lost their GM franchise have opened other franchises in the same location, or opened a used car store.

One thing is very clear. There were too many GM dealerships. The number of dealerships was more reflective of GM's sales dominance in the 70s and 80s than the current situation. Dealers need volume to make profit, and volume helps drive customers to their profitable service departments. GM dealers were selling half to a third of the volume that a Honda or Toyota dealer would sell.

I wouldn't weep for most GM dealers who lost their franchise. Most dealerships are owned by groups who generally buy different franchises to spread the risk around. So what they lose in GM, they might make up at their Ford, or Nissan or another brand franchise they own. Mom and Pop dealers are fading fast.

Reply to
James

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Invisible? More like butt-ugly. I liked my '93 Vision TSi, though. Well, until the transmission went. Eight years old and well less than 100K and it was junk.

Reply to
krw

And more then likely they will gain very little goodwill. Most of the people will continue to badmouth GM since we know going in that they wanted something they had no legal right to and people like that are usually nothing but a pain in the ass forever.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

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