E85 and Butanol

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It wouldnt make a lot of difference, financially. NGL, CNG, etc are still going to be expensive, because petroleum hydrocarbons are presently expensive.
We can fumblefart around with this sort of exercise, but the problem is that we are producing far less petroleum than we need at out present consumption rates, to wit some 70% is imported from countries that do not give a damn about our discomfort.
We have to have a plan, and we have NONE...T. Boone Pickens said the other day that a fool with a plan can defeat a genius without one every time...
We need a non partisan, scientifically defensible, sound and workable energy program. And we have a congress full of fools who are only involved in personalities and pork.
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wrote in message | > I should have said CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) instead of LNG which | > must be contained in a double walled insulated pressurized container. Go | > here for info- | > http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/fuels/natural_gas_cng_lng.html | > | > -- | > Anyolmouse | | It wouldnt make a lot of difference, financially. NGL, CNG, etc are still | going | to be expensive, because petroleum hydrocarbons are presently expensive.
CNG prices of $0.91/gallon in OKC and $2.19/gallon in DFW area according to this- http://www.altfuelprices.com/index.php?location=oklahoma+city&lat5.493138&lng=-97.459141 If we started using CNG more the price would go up. As Mr. Pickens has stated many times- it is all about supply and demand. Something our liberal friends in D.C. can't comprehend.
| We can fumblefart around with this sort of exercise, but the problem is that | we are producing far less petroleum than we need at out present consumption | rates, | to wit some 70% is imported from countries that do not give a damn about our | discomfort.
No Natural Gas shortage in US per Oil & Gas Journal- http://www.ogj.com/display_article/329589/120/ARTCL/none/GenIn/1/NGSA:-No-natural-gas-shortage-in-the-US /
| We have to have a plan, and we have NONE...T. Boone Pickens said the other | day that a fool with a plan can defeat a genius without one every time...
No arguement here.
| We need a non partisan, scientifically defensible, sound and workable energy | program. And we have a congress full of fools who are only involved in | personalities | and pork.
And most have a Marxist mentality!
All that needs to be done to produce CNG is to filter natural gas and compress it.
Interesting site on MPG comparison- http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/CNG2007.shtml
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Anyolmouse

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http://www.ogj.com/display_article/329589/120/ARTCL/none/GenIn/1/NGSA:-No-natural-gas-shortage-in-the-US / That link only brought me to a map of places you can buy compressed gas. That has nothing to do with the shortage or availability of fuel gas, in my opinion.
I havent bought CNG here in the last year, but at that time it was far more than the figure you quoted, even without the fuel tax which is levied upon it. CNG is a wonderful fuel, but to pursue this would be no better than to just ante up for the price of gasoline.

That is pretty much the truth... But I do not believe that CNG is the answer.
My company is the worlds largest in its field in oil and gas exploration and production. The official company line is that NG is in short supply. Call the CEO a liar if you will, but we are presently importing massive amounts of CNG. If we had domestic supply, we wouldnt do that.
The CEO, not long ago, pronounced that global warming was a myth.. There remains the possibility that ,if not lying, he is just FOS... ;>)
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wrote in message | > | > No Natural Gas shortage in US per Oil & Gas Journal- | > http://www.ogj.com/display_article/329589/120/ARTCL/none/GenIn/1/NGSA:-No-natural-gas-shortage-in-the-US / | | That link only brought me to a map of places you can buy compressed gas. | That has | nothing to do with the shortage or availability of fuel gas, in my opinion. | | I havent bought CNG here in the last year, but at that time it was far more | than the | figure you quoted, even without the fuel tax which is levied upon it. CNG | is a wonderful | fuel, but to pursue this would be no better than to just ante up for the | price of gasoline. | | | > All that needs to be done to produce CNG is to filter natural gas and | > compress it. | | | That is pretty much the truth... But I do not believe that CNG is the | answer. | | My company is the worlds largest in its field in oil and gas exploration and | production. | The official company line is that NG is in short supply. Call the CEO a | liar if you | will, but we are presently importing massive amounts of CNG. If we had | domestic | supply, we wouldnt do that. | | The CEO, not long ago, pronounced that global warming was a myth.. There | remains | the possibility that ,if not lying, he is just FOS... ;>)
You must have overlooked this page of the Oil & Gas Journal with recent statement that there is NO NG shortage. The other link was supposed to be a map of current CNG prices. This is in agreement with the information I get from people I talk to in the drilling business. http://www.ogj.com/display_article/329589/120/ARTCL/none/GenIn/1/NGSA:-No-natural-gas-shortage-in-the-US /. If, CNG was pushed as much as ethanol as an alternative fuel a shortage might develop. Again, the result of supply and demand, which would also drive the prices up. I've been told that almost every deep well in Oklahoma and Texas is a gas well.
All I know is what I am told by those in the O&G business and from what I read about it. Are you importing CNG? or NG?
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Anyolmouse


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http://www.ogj.com/display_article/329589/120/ARTCL/none/GenIn/1/NGSA:-No-natural-gas-shortage-in-the-US /.

One is related to the other. The company I recently retired from is the worlds largest of its type. I choose not to say the name, but you would readily recognize it.
A couple of years ago, natural gas reserves (compressed into underground storage formations) was at the lowest level in recent history, and it appeared that the summer recharge cycle would not be capable of refilling reserves. Drilling and production was at a high level...AFAIK, we did not run out of gas that year, although prices for gas and electricity soared.
We are experiencing a fury of leasing and drilling in my part of the country. Wells are going into a gas bearing shale at some 18,000 feet. This will bring an influx of money to this area,but I do not believe our total gas production could supply an expanded market. Maybe you are right...I am not sure we will know until our backs are really against the wall.
T. Boone Pickens had an interesting interview last week, and although I find him an unsavory character to some degree, I do not challenge his expertise in the fossil fuels business.
He continues to be pessimistic. According to his figures, overall petroleum production in the world now is at the 85 million barrel per day level, while the consumption or demand is at the 86.5 million barrel level. Even though there are some new fields and finds, they offset some depleted operations and the net result is not bringing us closer to breakeven.
BP investments are moving heavily toward wind generators, solar, etc.
The present and future effects of China and India,and others, are not - I am afraid - well understood. I would not buy an SUV right now.
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wrote in message > | http://www.ogj.com/display_article/329589/120/ARTCL/none/GenIn/1/NGSA:-No-natural-gas-shortage-in-the-US /. | > If, CNG was pushed as much as ethanol as an alternative fuel a shortage | > might develop. Again, the result of supply and demand, which would also | > drive the prices up. I've been told that almost every deep well in | > Oklahoma and Texas is a gas well. | > | > All I know is what I am told by those in the O&G business and from what | > I read about it. Are you importing CNG? or NG? | > | > -- | > Anyolmouse | | One is related to the other. The company I recently retired from is the | worlds largest | of its type. I choose not to say the name, but you would readily recognize | it. | | A couple of years ago, natural gas reserves (compressed into underground | storage | formations) was at the lowest level in recent history, and it appeared that | the summer | recharge cycle would not be capable of refilling reserves. Drilling and | production was | at a high level...AFAIK, we did not run out of gas that year, although | prices for gas and | electricity soared. | | We are experiencing a fury of leasing and drilling in my part of the | country. Wells are | going into a gas bearing shale at some 18,000 feet. This will bring an | influx of money | to this area,but I do not believe our total gas production could supply an | expanded | market. Maybe you are right...I am not sure we will know until our backs | are really | against the wall. | | T. Boone Pickens had an interesting interview last week, and although I find | him an unsavory character to some degree, I do not challenge his expertise | in the fossil fuels business. | | He continues to be pessimistic. According to his figures, overall petroleum | production in | the world now is at the 85 million barrel per day level, while the | consumption or demand is | at the 86.5 million barrel level. Even though there are some new fields and | finds, they | offset some depleted operations and the net result is not bringing us closer | to breakeven. | | BP investments are moving heavily toward wind generators, solar, etc. | | The present and future effects of China and India,and others, are not - I am | afraid - well | understood. I would not buy an SUV right now. |
If it was the same interview that I saw, Mr. Pickens also stated that drilling in ANWR would not solve the problem either. Neither would off shore production. They would help, but with our high consumption that is all it would do.
One of the things that could help most is a voluntary reduction in consumption by the American drivers. Much like Europe has done for over a generation. I can remember in the 1950's that they were paying around $2.50 US/ Imperial gallon when gasoline prices here in the US were a tenth of that. Can't imagine anyone parking a Hummer (or other large SUV) that they still owe $30.000.00 on and buying a Toyota Corolla to drive instead.
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Anyolmouse



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anyone parking a Hummer (or other large

It is happening already. I understand that old Geo Metros are bringing unheard of prices on Ebay.
It is the same interview with T-Bone, I am sure. This has been his public position for several years.
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spiral upward and they are controlled by the same Big Oil companies who are gouging everyone at the gas pumps. As far as ethanol is concerned the subsidy should be ended as this is a very bad idea and does little to help anyone other than the Farmers in the Midwest. Anyone who suggests the Oil companies will do anything to lower the price of fuel is living in a dream world.
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