Follow up...Oil changes, Toyotas, and GM problems

I believe Toyota settled several lawsuits to get out of a bad PR problem. They required virtually no documentation that an oil change had been done - I think the threshold was one change in a year!

Like you and the car dealer I believe the purported sludging problem is tied entirely to lousy maintenance practices by a handfull of Toyota car owners. You can't run an engine to 10,000 miles between oil changes without damaging the engine and causing a sludging problem. My son's Camry has 210,000 miles with no evidence of sludging, but it gets an oil change every 3,000 miles.

As the saying goes, Pay Me Now or Pay Me Later, but You Will Pay.

Totally agree. This has been my philosophy for a long time, and I am reinforced in it. When I can run cars for 100,000 to 200,000 miles with no oil burning and no engine problems (as I have for as long as I have used this maintenance schedule), I need not defend my choices further.

That's what I'd expect them to say, but I don't believe a word of it. LOTS of engines run perfectly well on 7000 or 9000 mile oil changes, so why don't Toyotas? Are Toyota owners maintenance slobs and everyone else takes perfect care of their cars?

Horsefeathers. They have (or had) an engineering problem with those engines, and they failed too often and too consistently. And that's another thing- why was it just a couple of PARTICULAR Toyota engines and not all of them?

Toyota isn't perfect, unlike what they'd love for you to believe. They laid an egg, and blaming it all on "poor maintenance" just puts more egg on their own faces.

Nonsense. Car makers have allowed 7500-mile oil change intervals for about 30 years now and haven't had major sludge problems, despite the SE and SF rated oils back then being much worse at preventing sludge than today's SL and SM oils. Many cars now have 10,000-15,000 mile oil change requirements and few sludge problems. Toyota simply made a major mistake when it reduced the amount of positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) in order to regulate the combustion more accurately for emissions purposes (crankcase blow-by gases burn, just as gasoline does). Toyota reduced it too much, and any mechanic can tell you that this can greatly increase the build-up of sludge.

Steve,

With no disrespect intended, if they tell you to change the oil at roughly

Now, I cant prove that this was the case, but IF you are given the clear instructions, and cant comply, it darn sure isnt Toyota's fault.

If you find a manufacturer that will approve 20,000 mile oil changes, fine. If I were the manufacturer, I wouldnt

Toyota reduced it too much, and any mechanic can tell you that

Perhaps you are right, and perhaps not. IF the manual instructed you to change the oil at 3000 mile intervals (and I cannot confirm this) and you chose not to do it, then the onus is upon you.

There are lots of engineering foibles in every branch of modern technology. If you choose to ignore the requirements, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

IF you follow the factory specifications and there is a class of repetitive failures, then the courts may have to be the eventual referees.

My previous boss too his wife's Camry to the toyota dealer every 3000 miles for an oil change and still lost the engine at 20something k

I certainly accept that this could have been the case. Don't know exactly, since I never owned one of them.

After having driven one, I can say that they seem to be very well conceived cars. Will I buy one? Maybe...

Except that the engine's PCV system was never changed.

The part numbers for the later 1MZ-FE valve covers is different from the original, and it's my understanding that the valve cover baffling was changed a bit to allow better oil flowback when sludged.

Claiming to need a 3,000 oil change interval is one way of saying that they cannot fix the problem in the current engine series. If you feel the need to go Japanese I suggest getting the 4 cylinder engine. Powers the Camry just fine. Test drive some of the new GM's first though...

If you don't believe me, remove the PCV valve hose and see what happens in 1,000 miles.

It doesn't, except perhaps for severe-duty driving.

Just go buy a godamn toyota and STFU.

Gosh, Scott. Thanks for you eloquent and perceptive comments.

When I polled the lubricating oil producers some months ago, those that answered also tended toward recommended short change intervals. Some did not answer at all.

I dont not know whether Toyota claims a fix for their V6. I drove the 2.4 litre 4 (claimed 160 bhp) and it was powerful enough.

I want to take a look at the new Lucerne too, but none of the area dealerships have them. They seem to have a new engine as well, but I might be hesitant if this is a first year production.

HLS, you forgot one thing... to STFU. Two things if you haven't bought the Toyota yet.

Kidding, Toyota MDT in MO

You have known me long enough to know that I am unlikely to STFU;>)

Since this Toyota business is a bit new to me, I ran a web search to see if the dealership version of the story is the same as the people effected are telling. It isn't.

Apparently, the manual recommended 7500 mile changes, or 5000 if under severe conditions. We are told that the gelation problem has been noted in cars with under 3000 miles on the oil.

The pendulum of truth is certainly not tarrying long on the side of Toyota.

I've gotta ask. Where "are we told" that the gelation problem has been noted in cars with under 3,000 miles on the oil. Wher did you find this information.

And have those cars experiencing sluding always had a regular oil change within the recommended limits? Or did the car owners in question all of a sudden get serious about oil changes after they had a problem.

Haven't seen anything to verify this statement so far.