Gasket failure: again!

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All right
Just learned that my intake gasket is failing again on my 2000 Venture. This is the second time; GM changed it at 1/2 cost (500$ CND) 2 years ago. The dealer told my wife that there is nothing
that they will do for us, do and they will not help pay for this crap. The service manager basically said: "Listen, this is a 6 year old van. It has 108 K Km (60 Kmiles), what do you expect?!" Well,.
Bloody GM. What can I do? We have been polite, respectful of the service manager, explained that this is not normal, that we do not abuse the van, it has been always maintained at the dealership... so what can I do?
Any help wouold be appreciated.
Cheers
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It is out of warranty. That means you pay. Next time buy something that won't let you down as much.

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get it fixed, research the internet,contact consumer organisation, CAA APA build a file, and take your chance at the small claim court.
wrote:

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I was thinking. Is there a product I can use to fix, even if temporally, this leaking?
Thanks
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No. The early stages of the gasket failure don't present big problems though. Keep an eye on the coolant level and keep it topped off. Watch your motor oil for any signs of water in the oil. You can actually go quite a long time on these gaskets when they begin to fail.
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BAD advice, change the gasket now. Gasket failures are not generally catastrophic and give plenty of notice before they fail and cause future damage from contaminated oil.
We in the fleet service business were first to encounter failing gaskets back then because many fleet vehicles accumulate mileage quickly. The head gasket failures we saw led to the engine manufactures becoming aware of the problem before dealer warranty claims heated up. We noticed extraordinary coolant consumption, tested the engines and changed head gaskets long before any internal damage occurred. We soon noticed the replacement gaskets were failing as well. It was at that point the non asbestos material; became suspect and was changed.
The problem for engine manufactures and their customers was there were four different materials use to replace asbestos initially, two worked and two did not over time. One failed comparably quickly, in the 20/30 thousand mile range like the material used in Toyota head gasket, resulting in gaskets failing for customers while still in warranty. The other however lasted much longer with failures occurring in the 60/80 thousands mile range. Thus out of warranty and the reason the gasket manufacture were taken to court by Ford and other engine manufactures, since the gasket makers said the resulting damage causes by a failed gasket was the owner neglect and poor preventive maintance in failing to replace the gasket.
mike hunt

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Not bad advice at all Mike. Real world advice.

the
before
were
You should stick to running the business Mike. The gasket failures in question are intake manifold gaskets and not head gaskets.

four
And GM's gaskets are still failing today.
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You mean like my neighbors Toyota, with the bad tranny? ;)
mike hunt
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I mean if there is something big that is likely to burn you after warranty, make a different purchase choice. Applies to any particular problem item, no matter the brand. The gasket failure that GM has had is something that people should have just plain avoided buying vehicles that have the affected engines. That's a LOT of vehicles to avoid! GM doesn't DESERVE to have people spend good money on products with such a serious problem. On the other hand, go ahead and buy other GM products that don't have the big problems, and don't by rice that has big problems either. Don't know for sure, but I have had independent mechanics tell me there was a stretch not all that long ago that a lot of Dodge (Chrysler) trannies were pure reliability nightmares. Had I been considering one of their products at the time, I would have checked into those claims much further before spending my hard earned cash on one.
On Sat, 20 May 2006 10:30:28 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

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Don't know for sure, but I have had

Right. Some of them failed very early. Ford went through the same situation on some of their transmissions, particularly in the minivans.
If you know about this sort of defect, you should probably avoid the car.
GM had some problems with their 440T4 Metric transmission, but they were probably not as serious as the Ford and Chrysler issues. The 440T4 has evolved and, I guess, is pretty dependable now.
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Unfortunately, a lot of people bought this engine option not knowing the problems that it carried with it.
I believe that both the design of this engine's sealing surfaces AND the composition of the original gaskets both had a little to do with this, and have heard that new gaskets are available that are much better than the originals.
Sgt Silicon is normally right, though. If it is out of warranty, you are probably out of luck.
The dealership BS line (that it is a 6 year old van, what do you expect) is crap. That is no time at all, nor mileage either, for a modern vehicle.
I wouldn't buy anything from them anymore, even if just because of that attitude. They KNOW there was a problem here, but legally they are not required to do anything about it, nor are you likely to get any sympathy from GM.
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There was nothing wrong with the gaskets design or the surface condition . GM like most every other manufacture, Ford, Chrysler, Honda Toyota etal, fell victim to the government ban on the use of asbestos without allowing the companies that actually manufacture gaskets time to develop a proper replacement material. All of the manufactures offered extended warranties on 'gasket related problems, but like all warranties they have a limit. Apparently that particular vehicle has exceed the warranty limit on time or mileage. The person people should be mad at is their congressman
mike hunt

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or
And the excuse for vehicles as recent at 2003, 2004 model years experiencing this very same problem is exactly what Mike? Your tired explanation lost its validity about 12 years ago. All of the manufacturers *except* GM have gotten past the initial change over problems - years ago.
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You contention might make sense but then how would that explain why the asbestos gaskets of prior years did not fail? ;)
mike hunt

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Strawman argument Mike. My point has been (for months now in response to your canned line about gaskets) simply that GM cars still have gasket problems and other manufacturers have long ago gotten around them. You can put your head in the sand all you wish, but GM wears egg on their face for this one.
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You forgot to say in my opinion because that is all it is, the facts say otherwise.
mike hunt

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You are indeed funny Mike. What do you do, close your eyes to what is going on to this very day with GM motors? Do you actually read any of the posts here about people with gasket problems? Can robots read?
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Intake (and other) gasket failures on this family of engines date back to the 1980 model year, when it was introduced.
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Damn sure did. Long before asbestos became an issue. That is why I think this engine series had some special sealing problems.
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Gentlemen,
We're talking a 3100 or 3400 V-6 I'm assuming? The first generation of that family (iron block/iron head 2.8L) seemed to seal OK. The worst issue I saw with those engines as far as leaks was rocker cover gaskets.
From what I remember (and I'll admit it has been awhile since I've worked on one - I avoid them like the plague) 1987 was the start of the problems - when GM went to aluminum heads on that engine family.(the Gen II version). Works on more than a few late 80s-early 90s cars with those engines with leaking intake manifolds.
When I bought my 1994 Regal I looked around to find one with the 3800 engine just because of the known sealing problems with the 3.1/3.4 engines. The 3800 in my Regal is the last year of the Gen. I 3800 - it has a plastic upper intake, but not of the same design as the Gen. II 3800s that we all know and love until they decide to burn antifreeze. I had a chance to buy a really cherry 1995 Regal, but I passed it up only because I knew it had the Gen. II 3800.
To the original poster: all I can say is shop around for the best price you can find on a repair, then ditch that van as quickly as you can. If you need a van, you may have to look at the foreign stuff - you know the problems with the GMs, the Ford Winstar is a known piece of crap and Chrysler can't seem to keep transmissions together in theirs. If you do go foreign, avoid Mazda (I could tell you some real horror stories about the MPV).
Regards, Bill Bowen Sacramento, CA
. .
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