gm and the gov.

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the gov said they had no interest in running the auto business didnt even take a week even though the task force said gm had to close dealerships. this is not going to be fun for us gm supporters
the rest of you can have your fun now. dont stay up to late now you have to go to school in the am
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It may not be fun for anybody. Nothing like this has happened before, AFAIK. The government has taken an unprecedented role in private business, not just bailing them out but making managerial demands.
This has undertones that are not funny at all.
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It's all funny as hell to me. You just have think about Abbott and Costello taking over from The Three Stooges. Relax and enjoy.
--Vic
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On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:13:15 -0500, Vic Smith

The GOVERNMENT didn't put GM into bankruptcy.
GM's highly paid, highly talented management set the course.... And the UAW helped grease the wheels.
Imagine the weeping and groaning if the government didn't try to help.
All we can do is make the best of a shitty situation.
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That's exactly what I was saying. The Three Stooges were a disaster. I think Abbott and Costello finally figured out who was on first. Or did they?
--Vic
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wrote:

Let them whine like slugs.
99% of the others that get laid off didn't whine. GMers are losers because they selfishly think this is a GM thing. Well GM being a weak corrupt and pathetic company is a victim of it's own doing. As are plenty o other corrupt companies.
Just that the depression isn't going to allow the BS to continue.
The US economy will not recover until GM is history and people and businesses in the US pay their debts and bills. Maybe learn to repect others rights to fiscal liberty.
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Like heck. This is fascism. The gov't has taken over bank and has now undertaken the auto industry. I'd say Ford hasn't a chance. It will be next.
If you are enjoying this you'd be pleased as hell to be part of Italy or Germany 3/4 century ago. We fought a war and lost thousands of soldiers to get rid of that crap and here we are.
You think this is funny.
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You're a wacko. They say a tin foil hat can cure that.

Is that right? You a vet? You don't sound like one. Only a sap that never wore a uniform would compare the U.S. to Fascist and Nazi governments. A crazy sap.

Yep. You and Cannuck57 are pretty hilarious. Who the hell do you think I was talking about when I brought up The Three Stooges and Abbott & Costello?
--Vic
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wrote:

It is predicted that America's enemy to fear the most is from with in the US. Americans just lost their financial fredoms to politicians backed by banks and corrupt corporations.
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wrote:

So what would you call the system that is steadily forming in the US? Socialism? Communism? Sure as heck ain't capitalism.
I wonder if you know what any of them are.

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If the gov didn't step in, you would have seen chaos. It was the foremost leaders of capitalism crying for the gov teat. The absolute scions of capitalism. How could you have forgotten so soon?

Entirely contrary to the facts. Wouldn't expect more from the tinhats though.

Yes. Enjoy what it has wrought. Many have grown fat and lazy off that cheap foreign labor. Now it's time to pay the piper. Learning Chinese would be a start.

I won't quibble over definitions. You can look it up.

Seems to be working. Of course if you don't like it, you can roll your own country.

Then they'll got tossed out too.

You're funny. Do you even know more capitalistic countries than the U.S.? I'll give you 2. Commie China and Somalia. Pack your bags. Your paradise awaits.

Not to me. I'm a capitalist. Part of that is being able to add assets versus debt and guard your wealth. Mom taught me. And to know that some enterprises will fail. What's this talk of pension plans? Smacks of socialism, wouldn't you say? I'm beginning to suspect you aren't what you claim. Besides, surely you know that GM was a capitalist enterprise. What exactly are you complaining about? Personally, I saved the fruits of my labors working for capitalist enterprises and never invested with the Bernie Madoffs or expected to get wealthy off the sweat of others' labor. I have fairly simple wants. Always viewed Wall Street as too sleazy. And simple compounded interest has done well by me. All FDIC guaranteed of course. Driving used Chevys alone has probably added well over $100k to my bank account over the years. Simple aversion to debt. Anybody with sense can do that. Won't work for greedy people though. The banks have used my money well to fuel capitalism. Makes me proud to have contributed both my labor and money to capitalism. We worked well together indeed. You tinhat investors are an odd lot. Puffing up your breast feathers when capitalism is providing you good investment returns, exalting in your investment acumen, then whining like puppies when it falls off, and blaming anyone but yourself. Nobody made you do it. Buck up and be a man. Nobody owes you an easy living. Start your own enterprise if you want to be wealthy, and encourage capitalism. I'm sure you are more honest than the capitalists that have hurt you. That "anybody can invest and get rich" scam has played itself out. Some did well, and some didn't. Typical Ponzi. Different world now. The Chinese have the assets. But a good energetic capitalist can still become a millionaire. If that's your dream, of course. If starting your own company doesn't suit you, you might try trading commodity futures. I've made some money at that, but never bet what I wasn't willing to lose. Be very careful. Wrong trade and you lose your house. Part of the excitement of capitalism.
--Vic
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Actually it has. Stores with retail outlets do this all the time. K-Mart... for example.
GM likes to think it is special. It isn't at all. Other than extra special greedy and self serving.

While the money gets funneled where it is "politically" correct to do so. Make sure buddies of Obama get their bills paid.

Yep. Corruption wide open and at the top.
And the sheep are asleep.
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Actually - it hasn't. At what point did the government step in and leverage their financing by demanding of K-Mart management? At what point did the governement pour this amoung of cash at an ailing company?
--

-Mike-
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Mike Marlow wrote:

When they stepped into Harley Davidson when AMF drove it into the ground and handed the employees a load of money for them to "buy the company". The "owners" so far have developed NOTHING new. If you look over those famed "American Made" bikes you will discover a LOT of imported parts.
Another time was when they stepped into Chrysler the first time they filed for C-11 bankruptcy. The feds handed them a bunch of money and turned out the upper staff. That was when Iaccoca stepped in and took over and introduced the K car, Which has to be the longest running platform in history considering that the current Caravan runs on an updated K car base!
--
Steve W.

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Some big differences then.
Chrysler only borrowed $1B and was in much better shape than today.
Today they were run bankrupt without a turn around for far too long. And no one asks what happened to the $11B Chrysler had at the end of October that "disappeared".
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I did not realize that the Feds stepped into the Harley deal.

Substantially different. The Feds did not step into the management of Chrysler.
--

-Mike-
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That is a common misconception, that the government LOANED money to Chrysler, at the time.
The fact is Chrysler did not get a cent from the feds. What Reagan did was agree to guaranty the loans that led to Chrysler getting back on its feet.
The money came from the Union Pension fund and five banks, to whom Chrysler paid interest. In return the US Treasury got Chrysler PREFERRED stock to secure the loans.
When Chrysler got up and running again Lee Iacocca wanted to buy back the preferred stock from the government at the value when they were given to the Treasury but Reagan said no, they had to buy the stock back at the current much higher value because Reagan said the taxpayers were entitled to the profit made possible by the federal loan guaranty.
As to the amount of imported parts on Harleys, if you ever tour their plant in Pennsylvania you will see the members of the Machinist Union there use American steel to make just about everything from the wheels up the handlebars including the chrome plating, and actually a very limited number of minor imported parts, like shocks and some electronics.

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Fancy ways of financiang loans.
Lets ask, would they have gotten the loan without DC?
Nope. So it is materially correct.

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Oh please - even when you are proven wrong you attempt to twist it to sound like you are correct.
--

-Mike-
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It is a loan by the government if the government has to underwrite it as no one else will.
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