gm autos

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There a few in this group that hate GM and everything about it, have made many remarks in the negative about all of GM and anyone connected with it.
Since i am Pro GM and a retired Salary worker 35 years of service and retired 17 years now and have already lost all health care and stand possible to lose much more, I hope your future is secure and this and something like this dosnt happen to you.
Since GM will now be importing from china and offsetting it with reductions from canada and mexico maybe your business will be affected also. Please let us know so we can comment on the mismanagment of your company and repeat the same comments over and over again to every post that you make. My guess we wont hear from you.
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But, many are amazed at how a company with such highly paid execs, and such a highly compensated work force could run itself into the ground.
Intreresting.... I don't remember any weeping when we lost the electronics ( manufacturing ) industry the shoe industry the textile and clothing manufacturing etc. etc. etc.... And I sure don't remember any taxpayer bailout except for some extended unemployment benefits.
So, welcome to modern day America.... ( want fries with that ?? )
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Not really. Since not one of them produced much but BS... they ran out of money.
Seems like we have a whole generation of people that don't think they have to pay their debts.

Yep, GM didn't offer to bailout anyone.
Maybe we should have a 50% surtax on auto workers? Seriously. Get them to pay for their own!

Yep, the new USSR. United States Socialist Republic and Government Motors.
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Hi!

I don't agree with where they are now, but I don't hate either one. (Although I've been a GM vehicle owner/driver almost exclusively, a few Chrysler K-cars have snuck in and I've got to admit that I'm actually, seriously pretty impressed by them.)

I find it slightly surprising. Yes, for the longest time GM made some pretty lousy cars, or at least cars that weren't as good as they could have been. But twenty some odd years ago, the Buick division was producing what would turn out to be some really great cars. Look at how many you *still* see on the road, and the very most of them are running as well as the day they were made. I've got a 1989 Buick Electra with that 3800 V6 that is creeping closer to 300,000 miles every day. Looks rough, but it runs and drives as though it were new. I also have an '88 LeSabre with many options and they almost all work (right down to the A/C!). Only the power trunk release has failed.
GM is making some of the best cars they've ever made in this day and age, but I think the bad news of the past has really stuck with them, and they can't shake it just yet.
William
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No one wants to see it happen but it is too late. GM corruption bailout is digging into everyones pocket from coast to coast and beyond. And it has people pissed off and rightly so. For decades GM has overpaid all of it's people, wasted money, failed on critical promises and to be frank, hasn't paid one of their own bills since last year!
Is it criminal? You bet! Wagoner, the old GM board and others should be summarily executed for the grief they pulled on everyone. The union leaders too, for demanding excessive benefits. Pension administrators who screwed up! GM should have been liquidated some $100B or so ago.
Read the story about The Goose That Laided The Golden Egg. Or the Three Pigs.
GM was milked dry and now it is time to die. Because to now go into the government to bilk taxpayers accross the country is pure bullshit. Why should my family pay for GM? I don't even own one! Should I defer my retirement for the pending tax load GM and other bailout wankers are going to saddle us with?

After GMs stunt with picking the taxpayers pockets, some of will never buy a GM, GMAC (now Ally), Chrysler, CAW or UAW product again. I don't care how you package it, I don't care who you blame, these companies are on my do not buy ever again list. Hell, I will not even rent one and specify I don't want GM or Chrysler when I rent.
Maybe call up Obama and ask him if 12 years of service is worth a $20M take away (guaranteed) pension? Bet you voted for a democrat fantasy.
BTW, looks like Obama might saddle taxpayers with $100B dollars of debt-taxes. GM was up and the rest of market was down. Taxpayers need to revolt over this.
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Losers like "Canuck", and "Jim Higgins" aren't smart enough to think to the future. Seeing how neither will say what they do for a job, my guess is neither have one, and figure that even if GM goes under, the Government will still keep sending there welfare checks. Though, I honestly think there is more to "Canuck" then he tells us. He has such a hard on for GM going down, to the likes I have never, ever seen before, about anything. My guess is his wife (or girlfriend) left him for a CAW/UAW worker. He also said at one point he lived in Ontario (there are several CAW plants in Ontario), so I also think he may have applied for a CAW job, and was denied (for whatever reason, likely incompetence). Either way, they are hypocritical idiots, who would gladly
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Actually, we do think to the future and without the GM GREED attached.
Why let the government pop $200B to debt-send-bailout corrupt auto?
Why charge it and tax our children?
Why not let GM go bust. Then others like Ford, Toyota, Nissan and Honda can easily hire more people to make autos people want at a tax paying profit?
Why let GM keep sucking us? How much is enough? How much blood sucking? Did GM bailout electronics, textiles and other businesses? Did the economies collapse when RCA went offshore to make TVs? Nope, RCA is still in business!!! And the economy didn't collapse.
Nope, GM is a rouse, bilking taxpayers, corruption on a never been seen before scale.
GM == Selfish corrupt bastards.
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You have demonstrated that you think of no one, but yourself.

Why let the government pop a couple trillion to the banking industry? Why aren't you so pissed about that?

See above. There are far more government handouts going on then GM. And a lot are far more money.

Ford has stated numerous times (and I have point it out to you, numerous times) that if GM were to completely fail, they too would likely go down. Even Toyota (who, by the way, is begging for billions in loans from the Japanese government) relies on the same suppliers that GM does. It's like dominos. You knock one down, and the rest fall like clockwork. But, you don't understand that, and you don't want to try. You have such a hard on to see GM go down (for whatever reason), that you see exactly what you want to see. You don't speak in facts, you twist the facts to portray whatever you wish. You are a hypocrite, and won't admit it. How can you possibly be so pissed at GM for the $50 billion loan, and not care a bit about the Wall Street trillions, given with no questions asked? I doubt you have any close family, but if you did, and you act in real life like you act on Usenet, I am sure they are ashamed of you.

Offshore, exactly. Tell me, what happens when all industries go off shore? Surely you have a brother or sister who has children. Do you even think about them? Do you ever think about the world you are leaving them? You seem to think it is such a great idea to let all industries/business go offshore, but in 20 years, what is going to be left in Canada/USA for people to do?

We'll see what your attitude is when GM starts recording profits again...But, when they do, I know you will twist that to work in line with your fantasy conspiracy mind.

Canuck == Selfish, unethical, corrupt prick.
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you tell me, while you were busy designing, producing and selling crap you didn't once think the con wasn't going to last longer than the cars you sold ? ( burned once by gm, never again)
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you tell me, while you were busy designing, producing and selling crap you didn't once think the con wasn't going to last longer than the cars you sold ? ( burned once by gm, never again) ====================================================== You have stepped on one of the biggest misconceptions about the auto industry. There are so many people blaming the line workers for making shitty parts, but guess what? They don't design them, they don't test them, they only put together the pieces. If you want to blame someone for a shitty car, blame the bean counters, who saw only $$$ signs, and nothing else.
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Since you are retired, is it not the case that your retirement benefits are guaranteed as required by law?
Many of us have no benefits except those offered by Social Security and Medicare, plus our own savings and investments.
Why do you think that GM has (essentially) failed?
Certainly there was not a mass conspiracy to force GM to restructure; the basic rules of the market are that -if you do not provide a desirable product of respectable quality at competitive prices, and that -if you do not keep your corporate finances under control,
your business probably will go through problems and may not survive.
Since you were a salaried worker, you probably had no choices in the policies, engineering, and design that drove GM to the brink.
You may well have had some influence over the quality of the final product. You probably did whatever you were paid to do as well as you could do it, and had belief that everything would be allright.
And I am sorry that it did not work out as you hoped. Be proGM . If GM management had been so, and had done their jobs as you probably did yours, there likely would not have been a problem.
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Do you not think that the influx of foreign vehicles, competing with home industries, had 'something' to do with the demise of GM?
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"Alan" <you're got to be joking> wrote in message

Influx? Foreign vehicles have been coming in for years and competing with home industries, but in the last few decades the competition became very serious and professional.
There was a time when only Ford, Chevy, and Dodge were serious competitors for the American market here in the 48 contiguous states.
And they still would be if it were not for some basic changes in the marketplace.
Foreign vehicles are, arguably, no longer foreign.
They employ Americans to build or assembly their products here now.
They have developed a reputation for - solid products, - a finger on the pulse of the customer, - economy, and - product desirability.
American producers began to lose in a market that was almost exclusively theirs to keep.
Nothing in life stays constant. American manufacturers lost the skirmishes, if not the battle, by poor management planning, which resulted in poor execution, poorer public relations, and poor economic viability.
American Motors, Packard, Studebaker, and others fell like this in years past...
There is no free lunch in a market society like the USA.
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Back in the '50s, VW was more of a cult vehicle than mainstream competitor. Once established, people found them reliable in spite of their shortcomings in size and performance. Japanese cars were cheap, partly do to the exchange rate. Longevity on some of the originals was questionable, but the engines lived on even after the body rusted away.
US cars still had their followers and most of us preferred them to the foreign competition. Then the Big 3 would, one by one, get us pissed off. I never would have gone elsewhere until I felt Buick sold me crap and would not stand behind their product. After decades of GM ownership I thought it was time to find out what else is out there. My car is assembled in the US, at least some of the design of the powertrain was US influenced, but the quality procedures of the car maker shows up to be superior so far. 55,000 perfect miles so far,; only oil changes, 2 tires, filters.
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wrote in message

departure) etc and controlled 60 per cent of the market. There was talk among some gov. officals that gm should be split up. Rather than due that they introduced more competition by encouraging Japan to import and assemble cars here along with VW along with good trade laws. Honda first then toyota and others and VW along with very good state tax dollars for infructure etc. dont know how much tax dollars but for all of those manuf, it was alot.
Those Japan companys didnt design or build those cars here only assemble them. The design, tools ,component parts etc stayed in japan. because of price they started to gain market share, GM at that time in order to compete started to import from offshore and started to shut down the factories here. in late 70s Gm started to reduce hourly and salary staffs. In 86 they closed 11 fabrication plants. and moved some to mexico and elseware. there were more closings in 92 and further reductions in staffs and it seemed like it continued for the next 15 years. Just remember the design and the tooling for these is a big part of the automobile dollar and created many jobs. i doubt there are too many tool builders left in this country
I know that many people say gm was late to the ball game but based on the above it cost many billions of dollars to accomplish this. also many years.
as far as quality goes up until the 70s with model changes every year it was difficult to keep up and by the time you get it right another model change. From the early 80s until i retired in 92 the push for quality was non stop. I can only talk about the sheet metal parts i worked on but i think we did a great job. if anyone here can remember the rust buckets from the 50 to the 80s and what you see now. At one tim while we were putting gavanize steel in the under body and whole body dip primer, i was in a jap plant and they were only using spray on underbody.
also it is often stated the gm made cars no one wanted to buy. well thru 2007 they were the number one manf. in the world.
every country in the world knows the benifit of there auto manf. business. most countrys if not all wont buy imports in any great nbr. all we do here is to critize our manf and blame everything on (BIG BUSINESS) we are losing jobs to other countrys at the tune of 65 billion dollars a month, i think this country will have to wake up.
just to finish can i say i was happy with everything gm did NO but they did many things right, and if it had not been for this downturn think gm stood a good chance of turning their businees. The last UAW contract was huge give back, maybe you dont belive it but if you could get beyond the media and our wonderful bought and paid for gov. maybe you would have a different take on the situation.
now time for all the yea butts, and gm should die etc. have fun and try to stay positive.
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Body by Fisher used to mean something.
But here is something you did wrong.."You", meaning GM, brazed the panels under the rear windows for years,..
Everybody knows that dissimilar metals and water give body rot, and that is exactly what happened.. And GM knew about it...and did nothing for years.
They also knew that people traded cars as much because of the way they looked as anything else, and a rotten body under the window looked bad and was really a nasty problem. It was strongly suspected that this was engineered obsolescence.
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at 4to500 an hour brazing was out of the question. also in the assy plant they ran at a 60 per hour clip no time for brazing. There was a leaded joint at the quarter sail to roof area for a number of years a while back. the window opening i worked on were all pinch weld flanges front and rear

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It wasnt out of the question because it WAS done. There is no question about it. I started taking notice of this in the late 60's through the 70's.
There is no problem in identifying the brass joint, and the corrosion all around it.
I spoke with a GM employee about it at that time, a friend of mine, and he confirmed that GM knew of the problem, had known all along, and had chosen not to do anything about it.
Eventually it "went away", but like the faulty plastic plenum, it stayed far far too long.
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Really? What car company today, with SMEFI engines, does NOT use a composite intake manifold ? ;)

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wrote in message

I bought a '97 Buick LeSabre and it's still going strong. Wonderful car although I obviously haven't tried anything else :-)
We once entertained buying a Jap car - but I couldn't get my long legs in!
(This has happened before, as in my youth I attended RAF Hornchurch with the intent of becoming a pilot. Of an initial intake of 40 boys, only 16 were left after a rigorous 3 days of medical and aptitude tests. The final 'cockpit test' in the sawn-off front end of a Meteor Jet, found my legs to long to fit in! )
Even in the Buick, I couldn't fit in as a passenger in the back. I'm 6'3" with a 34" inside leg - and I've known lots of taller guys.

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