GM, Ford reputations take a hit

Actually... they don't. I already posted a comparison of factory service manual data that refutes that oft-repeated bogus claim.

But the most common type is still tri-metal (babbit/copper/steel) or aluminum. That had settled out by the mid 60s, though some lower-performance engines continued to use steel-backed babbit to this day.

Again, it had pretty well settled out to the current state of the art by the mid 60s, and there was virtually NO change between, say, '65 and about '98. Since the mid 90s, there's been some renewed effort in internal engine design with things like more use of die-casting processes, powdered metal fabrication processes (connecting rods being a good example, IIRC the Ford Modular v8 was one of the first to use that process). And as I said, the switch to roller cams in the 80s was pretty big in terms of gaining efficiency and reducing the demands placed on the engine oil.

I don't deny that there was a lot of progress in peripheral areas like intake manifold design, valve port design, combustion chamber design, and (especially!) electronic engine managment, all of which boost efficiency, reduce fuel quality requirements, and lower emissions. But in terms of the design factors that affect brute durability, that's largely been at a standstill for 40 years. That's the way of most technologies- rapid changes until a plateau is reached, then incremental changes beyond that. Lubricants on the other hand (particularly the high-end synthetics) have had their period of most rapid improvement during the 80s-present time frame.

I don't deny that oils have improved over the last 40 years or so and continue to improve.

However, tight tolerance doesn't necessarily mean the spaces between engine components. It also means that the components are built more exactly to specifications. So, instead of the bore of a 4.00 cylinder being maybe 4

I remember cars of the fifties were considered high mileage at 40-50,000, and worn out not far after that.

By the time the sixties were going good, that seemed to change, especially for Ford perhaps which modernized to better casting methods, giving truer and lighter blocks. The newer small block Ford didnt seem to crack and wear out like the older ones did.

A good engine today can easily hit 150-200,000 if you're lucky.

Talked to the Buick service manager about it a few months ago (during a bench racing and BS session) and he says the metals used in the blocks are harder, tougher now causing them not to wear as much. Dont know that there is any truth to it, but could be , I guess.

But just having a longer lasting engine does not make for a satisfactory and longer lived package. I think the electrics are more complicated now, and more prone to expensive failure. I will just say in general they are less satisfactory IMO.

Transmissions vary a lot from good to terrible. In the old days, we didnt use so many automatics and our three speed manuals lasted forever.

Ford and GM had to spend bullions to change several of their assembly plants from building less expensive RWDs to start building FWD vehicles. The 500 was not comparably expensive to bring to market since it was built in the new FWD plants, off a previous Ford chassis on which it build Volvos.

No import builds or assembles small car in the US, they are all imported or assembled in Canada of imported parts. Honda, Nissan and Toyota builds MIDSIZE cars in the US and Nissan builds trucks. In the case of Toyota, with the exception of those built in the GM/Toyota plant, only assembles them of mostly imported parts, which greatly reduces the build costs Honda does not really build trucks, they make their trucks on car chassis and are more like crossovers than real trucks

mike

The longer Chrysler warranty came later. It was either or the 2/24 bumper to bumper or the 5/50 drive train only, not both and not transferable. The warranty on that '49 was 1,000 miles or thirty days, WOF The biggest problem with Chrysler was they would start to misfire when they got damp.. They would begin to stumble if the weather forecast on the radio in the car even PREDICTED rain the next day, it seemed ;)

mike

Engines 50 years age had a lot more tongue. Modern engines, particularly todays Jap engines run at much higher RPMs than engines back them Remember all the 4cy Jap engines of those days, they used hollow cast cranks and machined the aluminum block as the main bearings, like a motorcycle or a lawn mower engine? When a bearing failed you had to junk the engine That is one of the reasons you never see any Jap cars form the seventies at an old cars show LOL

mike

I have to disagree. Today you go out turn the key the car starts and keeps running. 100k miles later, if you do the necessary preventive maintenance every 15K, it still does the same thing. Back after the war we changed oil every 1000 miles, the points, plugs, exhaust system, shock and tires every

mike

Actually, Civics are produced in Ohio and of domestic and globally sourced parts. Corollas are built in the US.

.honda.com/news/2005/4051122.html

I think that you are missing the point that Toyota and other imports use a lot parts made in the US. Whether or not it is more than half differs on model and manufacturer. Toyota spends something like $28,000,000,000 on parts and supplies in the US. Toyota has two US design facilities, one near Detroit and the other in California. Car makers want to make their vehicles with mostly local parts near where they sell their vehicles. For example, VW was making the old Beetle for years (going into the 90s, I think) in Mexico and Brasil. Likewise, Ford makes a lot of vehicles for sale in Latin America in Brasil and Mexico. And it builds cars for Europe mostly in Europe. And Ford and GM are getting into make cars in India and other parts of Asia. And, when they do that, that want to get parts made locally, if possible. It builds goodwill. And it is cheaper than shipping completed parts overseas, in most cases.

Most of the parts that Toyota uses for their cars and trucks in the US come from American and Canadian plants. When they first starting building cars in the US, they used mostly important parts, but most of the parts they use in US-built cars and trucks are domestic, now. (Nearly 1/2 of all Toyota parts on its new cars and trucks come from the US; very few Toyota parts come from the US on cars built outside the US; so that means that most of the parts on its US-built cars have to come from the US.)

Overall, domestic brands have a higher proportion of their parts built domestically, though, around 75-80% for US makes vs. 50% to 66% Toyota (different source give different numbers).

(Do not tell me anything about VINs and domestic content unless you are able to back your claims with real evidence.)

Yet they get the job done in a manner that suits their buyers. Just because you don't think that the construction is the best construction technique doesn't mean they're not trucks. They get the job done. And in the case of Toyotas, they get to stop on ramps, right in the middle of the Superbowl. And, Toyotas will run in a few weeks at Daytona! You don't get more American than that, except, of course, for Ford and GM.

If you don't like the way they are built, buy a different truck.

Jeff

Especially if she were to ignore that flashing service engine soon light.

Head gaskets? Who the hell said anything about head gaskets?

Wow - that is unusual in my experience. Just shows to go ya - never think you have it all figured out...

Luckily, I was aware that this problem existed with the series two engines.

When the dealership finished the car, they replaced coolant as well, and told me there was no water in the oil. I changed the oil anyway. There were a few drops of water in the drain oil, but the innards were not exposed to it for long.

Toyota has only around 5% of the full size truck market, Nissan around 3%.. Honda does not even offer a full size truck. Ford has more than 35% and GM has nearly 30%, Dodge nearly 20%. Corollas are assembled in Canada of mostly imported parts

Naturally you are free to believe whatever you wish but even Toyota does not agree with you. Their ads say assembled in the US of world sourced parts. ;)

mike

Yeap. US-brand trucks where the 1st, 2nd and 5th best selling vehicles in the US last year (The Camry and Corolla both outsold the Dodge Ram). The only import to make the top-10 list of best selling trucks came in at 8th (Tacoma) in truck sales and was 15th best selling vehicle.

While interesting, this has what to do with your claim that there are no small Japanese branded cars made in the US?

Corollas are also assembled in California:

Last I checked, the US is part of the world.

Why don't you go and find some independent numbers that show the proportion of parts in Japanese-brand cars that are made in the US?

I am free to believe whatever I want. And what I believe is based on evidence. Which means that most of what you have to say doesn't influence what I beleive, because you can't bakc your claims. However, I believe that you are a smart gentleman.

Jeff

Yes, that's EXACTLYY what it means.

It also means that the components are built more exactly to

If the piston-to wall spacing of the ASSEMBLED ENGINE falls outside the specified CLEARANCE (spaces between engine components) then its OUT OF SPEC. What you're talking about (production tolerance) simply improvies the YIELD of things like pistons, blocks, and crankshafts, meaning that they discard fewer as being out of spec these days. But when the engine is ASSEMBLED, everything has to be made from parts that are IN SPECIFICATION.

Again, you are taking improvements in "producability" and interpreting them as improvements in product. Not true.

I don't know about Ford, but Chrysler made the switch to a very hard block alloy across all engine families in 1962, along with major changes in casting methods to lighten the blocks. That was the longevity turning point for Chrysler engines, although the 50s Hemis lived a long time simply because of very high build quality compared to the industry average at the time. I think most of those changes were already in place for the slant-6 when it debuted in 1960.

Olds, Pontiac, and Buick switched block materials around that time as well, with Oldbmobile blocks being particularly well-known for hardness. Only Chevrolet continued along with cheap, soft, low-nickel block material all the way into the 80s and 90s.

Wrong. I am taking improvements in products and interpreting them as improvements in products.

Had you read and understood the web pages I cited, you would understand what I mean.

Until you are able to make sense, I will not reply you in this thread.

Jeff

"Full-sized trucks" Funny use of English in America.

You are not talking about proper full-size trucks, presumably :-)

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

No skin off my nose. I'm just an ignorant ol' engineer who doesn't really understand this stuff