GM/GMAC Suck

Before any of you flame me or accuse me of being a troll please read through this entire post, if nothing else it might enlighten you. In Sept. '02 my parents leased a new '02 Impala through GMAC through
a local Chevy dealer. On Oct. 28th my Mom went in the hospital for knee replacement surgery, 4 days ( Nov. 1st) later she died very suddenly from a blood clot that was a result of the surgery. Begining Nov. 10th, my father began trying to work with GM/GMAC to early terminate the lease as he is now in a position of having three vehicles (the Impala, a '00 Dakota (his former company truck), '02 Dakota current company truck), no need for three vehicles, and an inability to afford all three vehicles. He has talked to 5 different GM dealers in our area, including the top rated Corvette dealer in this market, and a priority GM dealer. Flat out the dealers cannot help him their hands are tied by GMAC. Okay so he has tried talking to GMAC, direct quote from GMAC VP of Finance "We're sorry to hear of your situation, however, due to the terms of your lease their is nothing we can do to assist you with early termination. Please note that had you purchased the vehicle you would be in a similar situation, and we would be unable to assist you as well. However, we can make the following offer to you, if you wish to turn the vehicle in early, you may do so by paying off the remaining balance on the lease ($6,000 + plus fees + damage ) or by selling the vehicle yourself in order to payoff the purchase/lease agreement, or by finding someone to assume the lease, provided they qualify with GMAC. The minimum amount we will accept for settlement is $18,000." How the hell do they figure if they had purchased it would he be in the same situation, had they purchased it, he could sell it for what is owed on it. We have been trying to sell or release the car since Nov. 15th to no avail, he has been making payments on it, but..... Now comes the real rub, he contacted GMAC a week ago and told them he was turning the car in (voluntary repossession) and that they could do what they want with it. Today he recieved a notice from GMAC stating that if he voluntarily terminates the lease early, GMAC will hold him, his heirs (me), his property, his personal business (he owns his own business) financially responsible for any outstanding balance and legal fees due related to this vehicle and all prior telephone calls are recorded, and should he attempt to file bankruptcy to avoid payment of the balance due in the event of a lawsuit, GMAC will seek any and all legal means to have the bankruptcy forcibly discharged in order to obtain their money. Just a little something for all of you to keep in mind regarding this grand company. FWIW, I know that most of the manufacturers randomly view these newsgroups (BTDT in another auto newsgroup), so to GM/GMAC reps. I personally plan to bash your companies every chance I get, be it in public, private, local, national, international media. I plan to let as many people as possible know what a cold blooded, uncaring, heartless, screw-job corporation you are, this includes all subsudiaries of General Motors and General Motors Acceptance Corp. Don't like it, sue me!!!!!!!!!!
Eric Powers
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| Before any of you flame me or accuse me of being a troll please read | through this entire post, if nothing else it might enlighten you. | In Sept. '02 my parents leased a new '02 Impala through GMAC through | a local Chevy dealer. On Oct. 28th my Mom went in the hospital for | knee replacement surgery, 4 days ( Nov. 1st) later she died very | suddenly from a blood clot that was a result of the surgery. | Begining Nov. 10th, my father began trying to work with GM/GMAC to | early terminate the lease as he is now in a position of having three | vehicles (the Impala, a '00 Dakota (his former company truck), '02 | Dakota current company truck), no need for three vehicles, and an | inability to afford all three vehicles. He has talked to 5 different | GM dealers in our area, including the top rated Corvette dealer in | this market, and a priority GM dealer. Flat out the dealers cannot | help him their hands are tied by GMAC. | Okay so he has tried talking to GMAC, direct quote from GMAC VP of | Finance "We're sorry to hear of your situation, however, due to the | terms of your lease their is nothing we can do to assist you with | early termination. Please note that had you purchased the vehicle you | would be in a similar situation, and we would be unable to assist you | as well. However, we can make the following offer to you, if you wish | to turn the vehicle in early, you may do so by paying off the | remaining balance on the lease ($6,000 + plus fees + damage ) or by | selling the vehicle yourself in order to payoff the purchase/lease | agreement, or by finding someone to assume the lease, provided they | qualify with GMAC. The minimum amount we will accept for settlement | is $18,000." | How the hell do they figure if they had purchased it would he be in | the same situation, had they purchased it, he could sell it for what | is owed on it. We have been trying to sell or release the car since | Nov. 15th to no avail, he has been making payments on it, but..... | Now comes the real rub, he contacted GMAC a week ago and told them he | was turning the car in (voluntary repossession) and that they could do | what they want with it. Today he recieved a notice from GMAC stating | that if he voluntarily terminates the lease early, GMAC will hold him, | his heirs (me), his property, his personal business (he owns his own | business) financially responsible for any outstanding balance and | legal fees due related to this vehicle and all prior telephone calls | are recorded, and should he attempt to file bankruptcy to avoid | payment of the balance due in the event of a lawsuit, GMAC will seek | any and all legal means to have the bankruptcy forcibly discharged in | order to obtain their money. | Just a little something for all of you to keep in mind regarding | this grand company. | FWIW, I know that most of the manufacturers randomly view these | newsgroups (BTDT in another auto newsgroup), so to GM/GMAC reps. I | personally plan to bash your companies every chance I get, be it in | public, private, local, national, international media. I plan to let | as many people as possible know what a cold blooded, uncaring, | heartless, screw-job corporation you are, this includes all | subsudiaries of General Motors and General Motors Acceptance Corp. | Don't like it, sue me!!!!!!!!!! | | Eric Powers
Part of the problem is that legally it's a used car once the car is titled to a individual(s) and GM would be out the lost value (money). They couldn't sell it for new any more...legally. I don't think any auto manufacturer would do what you're asking. Although one could argue that for good will reasons, the dollars lost would be more than made up over time if (and that is the question...IF?) it resulted in 2-3 additional car sales. My guess is though that these lease terms are on the contract...why would you expect the company to do other than what the lease terms your father agreed to stipulate?
What I have seen done is to find someone willing to take over the lease payments and transfer the lease (title, etc .also) to them. It will still cost quite a bit for title transfer fees, sales taxes, etc. but may be the best bet if that could be worked out. But it sounds like you've tried that to no avail. The Impala is a nice car, I'm surprised you can't find someone that would take it.
Personally, I would cut the losses and turn it in and pay the cancellation fee. The longer you wait, the more that fee will be (as the car continues to depreciate at a faster rate than pay-down) as with any bad deal...it can be very costly. I was in a similar situation of dumping a new car recently (paid cash). Had I done it in the 1st month I would have been out $3,500. But since I waited 9 months, I was out $6,600 instead. You could fight it, but I think the judge would side to what ever the contract defines.
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Yeah any bank or car company would do the exact same thing. What you really should do is get the car stolen and totaled, (assuming you have gap insurance) and that'll take care of itself.
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| | Yeah any bank or car company would do the exact same thing. What you really | should do is get the car stolen and totaled, (assuming you have gap | insurance) and that'll take care of itself. | |
Except you can go to jail for insurance fraud if caught in a scheme like that. Not worth it. Pay the cancellation fee and chalk it up to the cost of education.
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Well thats why you don't get caught... Course now that they made a big stink about it to GMAC, if it just happened to disappear, they would definately think something was up.
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James C. Reeves wrote:

This is why you get life insurance of at LEAST $50K - so you can cover the 5-10K of unpaid debts that are inevetable. See if they can haggle a bit since the car is not worth $18K. It's worth a shot.
I'd get someone else to assume the lease at a really low price - so that he's only out 2-3K instead of 6K.
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Gap is automatic on a GMAC lease.

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Although I sympathize with your father's situation, I don't see how you can hold GMAC responsible for it. If they modified contracts for every one with financial problems, they would be out of business PDQ. Or, more likely, the extra costs would be passed on to the rest of us that do manage to pay our debts. He is your father, perhaps you could help him out instead of expecting GMAC to.
Dave
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egpowers wrote:

Stop here. $18000 is highway robbery. Lawyer time. That's really high - if it was totalled, you'd get $9K - high retail KBB at most.
Also talk to the insurance company. Their math is somehow off and honestly, their first offer is *always* their worst one - they can do better.
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Sorry to hear of your loss and your troubles...I would have expected that had you gone back to the dealer with your situation they could have at least "untied their hands" and offered to put it on their used car lot as a consignment.vehicle. Give 'em 5 or 10 % or whatever and they sell it for you...get what they can out of it...I don't think your Dad would expect a full refund from GM. The dealer could have sympathized a bit and tried to work with you to unload the unwanted vehicle. Who knows, the dealer may have gained a customer for life for trying to help out... Steve

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Not necessarily. Many people buy a new vehicle with only a minimal downpayment and are "upside down" on their loan for at least half of the period of the loan. If, for example, one purchased a new car with $1,000 down and financed the balance for 48 months (a common scenario), then they probably would owe more on the car then it's wholesale value would be for at least the first 24 months and often longer.
Bank/finance companies often offer to sell a borrower death and disability insurance for an extra premium which would pay off the balance of the loan/lease if the buyer chooses to purchase such insurance.
I have no idea if this insurance was offered or not in your mother's situation.
The circumstances sound horrible and tragic, but I do not think that GMAC is under any obligation to early terminate the lease and accept the vehicle as is in exchange for whatever is left due on the lease. This is one of the reasons for which life insurance in it's many forms is sold.
John
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Ding ding ding, we have a winner....
I'd also like to add that a voluntary repo will trash your dad's credit for YEARS, that is most definately not the way to go. It's no better than a "regular" repo. Really, what did you expect GMAC to do? How many thousands of people have tried to fraudulently dump cars in exactly the way your dad is (his need is definately legitimate, but GMAC has no way of knowing that!)? What I would do personally, is you or one of your sibs take the lease over from your dad. You probably don't even want the car, but it would help him out in a big way - he doesn't need any more stress, particularly if he's an old man.
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If you can't find anyone to assume the lease (which is the best option), try a firm like "Leasebusters" in your area.
www.leasebusters.com

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This looks like the most reasonable and realistic plan of action.
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In the olden days in Italy we'd send Uncle Angelino over to the dealer to talk with the finance man and the prospects of sleeping with the fishy's...
========Harryface ======== 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE, 3800 V6 _~_~_~_~275,982 miles_~_~_ ~_~_
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| In the olden days in Italy we'd send Uncle Angelino over to the dealer | to talk with the finance man and the prospects of sleeping with the | fishy's... | | ========| Harryface | ========| | 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE, 3800 V6 | _~_~_~_~275,982 miles_~_~_ ~_~_ | | |
That's always a option... ;-)
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First off, I made an error on one thing. The car was leased in '02, my Mom passed away in '03. We have tried talking to all the GM dealers in our area, their hands are tied by GMAC, and they cannot(won't?) buck GMAC lest they face retribution from the GM gods. That's a quote from the owner of one dealer (50+ yrs as a GM dealer, and the most willing to attempt to help). We have learned even more in the last few days. Originally the lease payment is $440.00 a month for 36 mos., my Dad was told that if he can find someone to qualify for the lease, he could put $1,000 towards the lease and knock $100.00 a month off the payment for those people. Sorry, but the person who told him that was wrong. He has found someone who is going to try and qualify to take over the lease, and possibly buy out the car at the end, my father is going to pay all the transfer fees, roughly comes out to $1,000.00 anyhow. We were willing to pay reasonable costs to early terminate the lease (and there is quite a bit of insurance money), but they want us to pay off the remainder off the lease plus added costs, and the sad thing is, he had the car evaluated by an independent source, and the car is at the high end of book value for this market (they have added a couple of aftermarket things to the car, plus it has low mileage, and meticulous care). What is weird is I talked to several other auto manufacturer direct finance companies and all have the same policy, but with a couple of exceptions all would be willing to work with us, and possibly negotiate. The offer made to us by GMAC is in writing and is their first, final, and only offer, in fact we have even talked to someone at the FTC about this, they were saying that the FTC is going to possibly try and get the these companies to modify thier leases to allow an out in extreme situations such as this, but the manufacturers have been unwilling to cooperate. We have had two different lawyers talk to GMAC, the comment from one lawyer, they're like trying to talk to a brick wall. As I said, I wasn't trying to start a flame or anything like that, venting more than anything, but also hoping to enlighten.
snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Harry Face) wrote in message

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A tough spot, for sure. Best of luck in finding a good solution.
| First off, I made an error on one thing. The car was leased in '02, | my Mom passed away in '03. | We have tried talking to all the GM dealers in our area, their hands | are tied by GMAC, and they cannot(won't?) buck GMAC lest they face | retribution from the GM gods. That's a quote from the owner of one | dealer (50+ yrs as a GM dealer, and the most willing to attempt to | help). We have learned even more in the last few days. Originally | the lease payment is $440.00 a month for 36 mos., my Dad was told that | if he can find someone to qualify for the lease, he could put $1,000 | towards the lease and knock $100.00 a month off the payment for those | people. Sorry, but the person who told him that was wrong. He has | found someone who is going to try and qualify to take over the lease, | and possibly buy out the car at the end, my father is going to pay all | the transfer fees, roughly comes out to $1,000.00 anyhow. We were | willing to pay reasonable costs to early terminate the lease (and | there is quite a bit of insurance money), but they want us to pay off | the remainder off the lease plus added costs, and the sad thing is, he | had the car evaluated by an independent source, and the car is at the | high end of book value for this market (they have added a couple of | aftermarket things to the car, plus it has low mileage, and meticulous | care). | What is weird is I talked to several other auto manufacturer direct | finance companies and all have the same policy, but with a couple of | exceptions all would be willing to work with us, and possibly | negotiate. The offer made to us by GMAC is in writing and is their | first, final, and only offer, in fact we have even talked to someone | at the FTC about this, they were saying that the FTC is going to | possibly try and get the these companies to modify thier leases to | allow an out in extreme situations such as this, but the manufacturers | have been unwilling to cooperate. We have had two different lawyers | talk to GMAC, the comment from one lawyer, they're like trying to talk | to a brick wall. As I said, I wasn't trying to start a flame or | anything like that, venting more than anything, but also hoping to | enlighten.
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First, let me say I am very sorry for the loss in your family. Also, in life we need to plan for these things; i.e. ample life insurance, etc. to cover expenses such as this. That being said, your situation is simply mathematics. As someone else has posted, you would be in the same situation if you had financed the car with little or no down payment. There would be a payoff that would be more than the car is worth. The situation is the same now. On a lease, there is always an early termination. (Unless you are within 6 months or so of the end of the term) Also there is an early buyout, an amount that can you can pay to buy the car outright. Your car is worth XXXX$$$$. For example, $10,000. Say the early termination is $5,000 and the buyout is $14,000. You would be $1000 to the good to buy for $14,000 and then sell it for $10,000. That way you only lose $4,000 instead of $5,000 you would lose if you did an early termination. Simple math. The dealers are correct in that their hands are tied. What do you expect them to do? They are in business to make money. They would have to payoff GMAC the buyout amount to get the title to the car in order to resale it. Are they going to pay $14,000 to GMAC to buy it out and then resale it for $10,000 or so? They can't stay in business very long doing that! Again, I'm very sorry for your loss, but GMAC is NOT to blame for the problems, and they can't be expected to do anything special in this case.
Jerry H. -- retired Pontiac sales manager

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Eric,
sorry for your loss...
Depending on the state you live and if your father signed the lease documents as co-sighner/sighner you may have some legal recourse. Document everything that has/will happen. Check out the "rights of survivorship" statues in your state and seek legal counsel depending on the outcome of your search. Check out the FTC's website concerning consumer credit. I thik you will find that "loophole" you are seeking. They can not threaten you and they might end up owing you money if they continue.
I tried to purchase my lease and those asses wanted $18,000 after 2.4 years on a year 3 year lease. I tried to sell the lease, but no dice!!! I finally turned in my 2000 Alero back into GMAC and they sold it for $7000.00 at a local auction 30 days later. They sent me a bill for the outstanding balance and I have never paid it and will never pay for somethng I never had the benefit of using. The reason I turned it back in was it just sucked as an automobile. It had many problems and many trips to he dealer to be fixed. Nothing was ever repaired and that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Good Luck, TOM
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