GM goes further down the dumper; NiHM battery supplier broke due to Chevron

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On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 05:44:56 GMT, "William W Western"


-34C atmospheric is -34C to any inanimate object immersed in it. The wind just makes it cool faster (more gas circulating faster over the cooled object = faster heat transfer), but it'll never get any colder than -34C. Basic thermodynamics, high school physics...in which I got an A+, of course, which stood me in good stead as an undergrad.

I used a Kim Hot-Start up in Canuckia back in my days up around there, (a VERY common US make). It was 500W and kept an 8V71 Detroit toasty enough to start on the first go 'round even at -20C, along with a 250W oil sump heater running 20W-20 MIL 5208 oil, then de rigeur for any Detroit Diesel. Of course, starting any diesel (assuming the fuel isn't gelled and the oil isn't too thick) is easier at such cold temperatures anyway due to the lack of absolute moisture. Having #1 ASTM fuel was a big help on 2 strokes, too, but that went away everywhere after the First OPEC Embargo, and the only way to "make" it after that was to cut #2 with some water white kerosene. The WORST climate in which to start any diesel was around 5C and high humidity. The large amount of water vapor, coupled with the cool intake air, would quench the detonation every time.
The Brits could never built deicers for aircraft, either. Ask anyone who was over there in WWII and watched Lancasters fall out of the sky due to wing rime, while the 17s and 24s just flew by unfazed.

Well, that's your choice! The garage is for the car...the junk goes in the junk room...or the dumpster, your choice.
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Categorically untrue. Your car does not understand wind-chill. Wind-chill is a reference for people only.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

And other animals exposed to the cold, like dogs and cats.
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Well yeah - but they don't complain about it.
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On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:13:54 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

Oh yeah, they do! If I'd leave my Buster out in the cold morn air after taking his morning constitutional, he'd sure bang on the door to have me let him into the warm house!
Sidebar: Dogs aren't affected by "wind chill" on the same magnitude as humans, as they do not sweat except through their tongues and feet. "Wind chill" is a psychometric phenomenon, similar to what happened when you measure atmospheric moisture with a psychrometer...the wick on the wet bulb thermometer shows a depressed temperature from the dry bulb due to evaporation of water. Same happens to people or any animal that sweats through the skin.
It does NOT affect cars, except to cool them down to atmospheric temperature faster.
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wrote:

To take it a little further in the sidebar - many animals are not subject to wind-chill. Those with heavy coats that protect their skin from exposure don't really experience wind-chill - or at least not in any way similar to what humans do.
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William W Western wrote:

How can wind make air at -34 C colder than -34 C? It will cool off the car faster, but it won't make it any cold than -34 C.

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You well know how this works Jeff - the wind blows some of those electrons away, robbing the car of its full starting power.
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"feels like". But at any rate what I said was: A car sitting in about -34C with no wind will stand a better chance starting than one sitting in -34C with a windchill of -46. Which says nothing about cold or colder, just what I observed this past winter out on my street. And what CAA wait times would likely confirm. I dunno. Come spend 30 days here next January or February and find out. As wind chill readings rise the time required to freeze exposed flesh drops. I work outside in all weather and can assure all that -46/-56 wind chill separates the men from the boys and you will need to warm up more frequently than at -34 and no wind. And I wouldn't want to "currently" depend on an electric car here.
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You have an amazing power of observation then. There is no association between wind-chill and your car starting.

What are CAA wait times? In what way do they confirm your car starting easier or with more difficulty?

Exposed flesh is completely different than inanimate objects. Do yourself a favor before you make yourself look even more foolish - go read up on wind-chill.

Of course - that's because you are a (ready...?) human. Wind chill affects humans and some animals. Not inanimate objects. With statements like this (above), you really prove that your observation skills need work.
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suppose, pretty foolish.

And I am still not sure why my original observation (based on the last several week's experience) that: A car sitting in about -34C with no wind will stand a better chance starting than one sitting in -34C with a windchill of -46. is so outrageous. Perhaps there were other phenomena at work. Or maybe the windchill had me so flummoxed the car started and I did not even realize it. As they say, the windchill separates the men from the boys. Or maybe the wind drives the temperature of the engine to the ambient temperature quicker. Or maybe the wind blew snow into the engine compartment which melted and buggered up the electricals. Or maybe the windchill caused a gnawing animal to crawl into the still warm engine bay and they chewed up some wiring. I am still dubious about electric cars in Winnipeg.
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On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:33:11 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

Canuckian Automobile Association, the "cooler" counterpart to AAA down south.

CAA tow truck driver turns key, gets a sullen "rrrrrrrrRRRRRRrrrrr," pulls key out, looks at owner and say, "She's cold, eh. Let's put a heater on 'er. Gotta Molson's, eh?"
Alternate take: "We're NOT gonna crash, eh...this is a BEER truck, eh!"
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On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 00:19:36 GMT, "William W Western"

Beauty, eh?!
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Hoser
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wrote:

G'day. If you guys start singing the 12 Days of Christmas, I'm going to call Geddy Lee and offer him 5 bucks (Canadian of course) not to sing with you.
Charles the Curmudgeon
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mull that over, eh?
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I thought thinking involved at least one pack of two-four, eh?
Charles the Curmudgeon
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message

It's not a "pack", it's just a "two-four", eh?
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TAKE OFF, EH?
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