GM's excess baggage - Buick, Pontiac, Saab, Hummer

Page 2 of 5  
wrote in message


My point was - - - - - - - It is not just US cars, it is all big cars. So how do you figure US cars tend to have poor fuel economy? There are some small US cars that get comparable mileage to imports.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

They may do but the US auto makers don't pomote them much do they ? Whilst Detroit continues to lavish its attention on SUVs and muscle cars, overall fuel efficency will continue to be dismal.
Graham
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

[snip]
Ah, now you have hit on something, but not what you think. In my opinion, US auto makers do a miserable job of promoting ALL their models. Ford is starting to do a better job with their mid-sized Fusion model, but every other US promo I see is advertising "low lease rates" or "low financing" with annoying music in the background, telling nothing about the car. A while back, Ford was advertising "A Focus and a Dell (computer)" where they gave away a "free" computer with the purchase of a Focus - targeted to college students.
Detroit doesn't advertise SUV's any better than their smaller models, or any differently than the foreign brands. In fact, you may have it backwards. Mercedes advertises their M series, Porsche their Cayenne, but I don't recall any E series or Boxster commercials. The same goes for Kia, Honda, Hyundai, etc.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Walt Kienzle proclaimed:

I'd say you are giving them too much credit. Chrysler came out with the 300 series, but on their negative side is pretty much everything else they make except Jeep which they are also doing their best to emasculate and abolish. Ford just sold Aston Martin and is trying to trash Jaguar. The Ford 500 isn't really a bad car, as is the Mercury version, but neither one of them exactly pulls folks away from the lines for the Chrysler 300 [which is a disguised Mercedes chassis with an American engine]. Ford hasn't built a real showcase Lincoln since the Mark VII even through they have all of the Jaguar talent able to help them create a whole series of world class cruisers, say with an aluminum chassis for the series for better mileage. Other than the Corvette and the one Cadillac built of it, all of the interesting GM cars are warmed over Australian models...even though GM also has all sorts of talent available from European touring divisions. All three have the talent it would take to make a series of interesting, reliable, safe, and even economical cars, but not one of them has the guts to do so.

Agreed... but underneath, you need a vehicle not built by a bean counter or someone that never has to drive the result.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Let's don't get too picky. Aston had strong growth, and actually makes money now. As for trashing, Jaguar doesn't need any help. That's gotta be the most incompetent auto manufacturer on earth that actually still builds something. Ford has been nothing but salvation for them the whole way. Billions were spent, and they'll never get a nickel back.

Boy, that's the truth. I thought the Mark VIII was a good follow-on, but I thought the 89-98 or whatever t-bird was kinda ugly.. What on earth were they thinking when they canceled the whole platform? Their badge engineering is a bit scary now. Neither Mercury nor Lincoln has anything with its own sheet metal now. They're just changing the grilles on stuff. A 1995 Mark VIII seems extravagant now, compared to the obviously badge-engineered MK-Focus.

That's a GREAT set of criteria for cars. You know, I think there are some products out there. The Mustang and the 300 are both interesting. At least they look like a car instead of an egg on wheels. The 300 can be pretty economical if it's equipped right. GM doesn't have a product in that same "interesting/reliable/safe/economical" race. I have to admit that I woke up and realized the HHR really does look like a 47 Chevy. The panel truck is what woke me up. It's very questionable whether that makes it interesting, but I bet it's reliable, safe, and economical. Makes you wonder how Chrysler is going to follow up the PT. That was interesting, and a huge huge success. But now they have to do that again, don't they?

Gosh - all those years of purpose-built rental cars. I don't see how some of the brands make it. I guess the truck sales paid for all the money they lost on rental cars.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I thought the earlier Thunderbirds (89 era) were handsome cars, but when I drove them, in anticipation of buying, they were still just shimmying Fords. What a disappointment!
Then the new Thunderbird, on first glance, looked pretty good, but the more I looked at it, the uglier it got...They nearly put enough lipstick on that pig to make it look pretty.
I am just not a Ford person...not since my old 66 Mustang, at any rate, and it had a bit of the patented Ford Shimmy and Shake to it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Eeyore proclaimed:

Unlike the European brands that are bringing us such fuel efficient vehicles as the V12 Mercedes, the Turbo Cayenne, the V10 Audi, etc. Of course you could always blame it on the poor neighbors to the south, where such "American" evils as the new Hemi are built.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Lon wrote:

You won't see many of the above on European roads. Even a 2 litre engine is bigger than average here.
Graham
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Eeyore proclaimed:

I see them, but you are correct. Then who needs a 7 liter monster when a 2 liter will silently move your vehicle at over 200 Km/hour with reasonable gas or diesel mileage. Plus it might go around the first corner...and stop. Not that some so called luxury brands are that good at safety, when a big Lexus sedan takes longer to stop than a Range Rover.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I was surprised at the number of Porsche Cayenne and 200 series Mercedes on the Autostrade a few weeks ago. Fair number of A6 Audis also. Yes, the percentage of less than 2 litre machines is greater, but some mid to large cars do exist.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Sure they exist but many of those Audis will only have 2 litre engines. Even Merc does a 1.9 litre. At the other end of the scale there are a number of cars with engines smaller even than 1 litre.
Graham
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The most popular in the C class is a 2.5 litre. (2496 CC to be exact)
Audi does have a 2.0, a 2.4 and a 3.2.
The percentage of larger cars seems to have grown though, and the smaller ones seem to be losing ground in some areas where there is some room. The Smart, for instance, is doing well in the big cities. Scooters are still highly popular too, I might add.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message

I'm not surprised. The Cayenne is kind of a bargain, really. I couldn't say that about an A6, but that's just me.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 13 May 2007 17:22:12 GMT, Eeyore

People tend to forget the imports were "born" in countries were gas always costed a lot so they tned to be masters of the art of high MPG while Detriot has long been the master on gas guzzlers and does not want to change its ways. Some US model "promise" good MPG but you you own them you find that some manufacture EPA ratings are more fiction than fact. Take Dodge, in 2008 they are yet again going to try to market the hemi SUV as fuel efficent vehicle in the mask of a hybrid using some GM technology. Rather than reinventing the vehical and concept they keep trying to keep the old one alive. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The government must stop the American people from buying the vehicles they want and need. The government must force them to buy small cars so we can save the world for our grand children.
mike
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 14 May 2007 08:10:48 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

You are bazzare. We have do not have unlimited resources (though some like to think they are) and detriot sarted the whole SUV thing to get around the MPG and crash standards for many years. I would venture to say that over 90% of the people with 4x4 drive "think" they need it because that is what detriot pushes, not because they need it. Had Detriot no exploited the SUV MPG loop hole for profit, there would be no SUV craze. You make money by making a product and convincing people they need it even if they do not. If you want your children and grand child to have anything in future things need to change now or by the 22nd century they will be looking for another planet to live on. Anceint Dinosuars roamed the earth for 100 million years plus but but mordern one call man is going to destroy climate and planet in the span a of few thousand years with most the damage in the last 50 or so years. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Geezus - do you see black Chevrolet helicopters hovering around your house? Detroit started all of this for their own purpose, and not to respond to their customers? Then who the hell would ever have bought them? And what about all of those vehicles being produced by every import manufacturer? They're producing SUV's to satisfy something other than their customer's demands? Those vehicles are selling for some other reason than consumer demand? Man - you've got to get a grip.

Bull. You don't understand much about market dynamics, do you?

Save the planet then - quit breathing. You'll emit less CO2. Global warming is caused by people like you blowing hot air in groups like this.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike Marlow wrote:

Around 10% of all man-made CO2 is from human respiration.
Graham
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Eeyore wrote:

73% of all statistics quoted in Internet newsgroups is fabricated.
--
-Fred W

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Fred W wrote:

Did you know that methane from cows has a very serious greenhouse gas effect.
Graham
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.