GM's excess baggage - Buick, Pontiac, Saab, Hummer

I can't speak to the whole lineup, but I have an '05 Chevy Impala as a company car. This is a very big car and I am not particularly fond of it, but this is what they give me. It gets over 30 mpg on the highway doing a steady 75 mph. Last week I drove from Manchester, NH to Baltimore, MD on a single tank of gas and was flabbergasted to find that the tank took less than 16 gallons.

I thought the earlier Thunderbirds (89 era) were handsome cars, but when I drove them, in anticipation of buying, they were still just shimmying Fords. What a disappointment!

Then the new Thunderbird, on first glance, looked pretty good, but the more I looked at it, the uglier it got...They nearly put enough lipstick on that pig to make it look pretty.

I am just not a Ford person...not since my old 66 Mustang, at any rate, and it had a bit of the patented Ford Shimmy and Shake to it.

Did you know that methane from cows has a very serious greenhouse gas effect.

Graham

No, I dont know that, but have heard it quoted a number of times. Cows (and people, for that matter) dont increase carbon based gases in the ecosphere over the equlibrium which has been established over the eons. The vegetation they would eat to produce this flatulence is just part of the recirculating carbon balance.

The serious increases are from carbon sources which have removed or made unavailable over the millenia in the form of coal deposits, oil deposits, etc.

Well, you say that but cows (and people) have never before existed in such numbers on the planet.

Graham

Doesnt make any difference. As long as the carbon comes from surface (vegetation) sources, it can be recirculated without massively upsetting the apple cart. You see, the "apple cart" is the climatic system that we are adapted to, after thousands of years of development.

Over the past millions of years, the climate has been far different, and not always very pleasant. Many species went extinct, but some survived.

As long as the carbon is locked away in the ground, as coal or oil, then everything else on the surface just recycles, more or less. But as you mine the reserve fossil deposits and convert them to CO2 or CH4, you begin to move the "apple cart" out of the realm of human adaptability and back to conditions as they were when other species were king.

It's nice that you're happy with your Sonata, but comparing it to a Lucerne is like apples and oranges. The two vehicles are clearly in a different class. If you've never compared a built in nav system to a portable such as a Garmin (I've used both, and also have a gps phone)... there's no comparison in convenience, visuals, not to mention that it mutes the stereo when it's about to speak directions, and has wonderful visuals. And I believe On Star is a serious consideration when purchasing a car. I've used it, I have it on both vehicles, and to me (driving over 50K a year personally, and around 75K a year between the two cars) it's a valuable service.

While you'd spend 11,600 more to get the same features, you'd also get a luxury car as compared to a nicely appointed econocar.

Willy

As a matter of curiosity, what about it makes you say "you're not particularly fond of it"?

Willy

I see you haven't driven a Sonata lately. It is out of the econocar class. No, not luxury, but far from the crap boxes of years ago.

What exactly do I get for the additional $11,600? Yes, there are some differences in trim. The dash covering of the Lucerne is a bit nicer. The climate control on the Sonata works better. The Sonata only has one temperature on the heated seats as opposed to two. The Sonata has a better gas gauge, both have the same brand of electrochromatic mirror. The Lucerne has rain sensing wipers and turns the headlights on when you turn the wipers on. The floor mats on the Sonata lock in place too, not slide like my Buick.

The Sonata has stability control across the model line as opposed to the Lucerne that only has it on the most expensive model. Given the true cost of the equipment, it is not fathomable that it would not be offered on an upscale car today.

The Sonata will out accelerate, out corner, out stop, out handle the Lucerne in any test you can devise. It is rock solid at speeds in excess of 100 mph (yes, I've tested that) And - - - - get this- - - -has more shoulder room!

As for OnStar, I've never been able to justify the high price. In the year of free service, I used it twice. One time they gave me directions that were helpful but not completely accurate, the other time they could not help me at all. The new system for directions is probably better, I'll concede, but not worth the money to me. If I was back in sales driving to many different places every day, maybe. I don't have or need a Garmin either so it is not a feature I care about.

The Buick is not a bad car, but it certainly is not the value that I got in my Sonata. I'd rather put the difference into taking a couple of nice vacations. We like to take two or three a year.

Yeahbut the cows of old used to fart more than the cows of today.

It handles like a boat. It really wallows on the road as the suspension is designed to be ultra soft. The small 6 cylinder engine is gutless. To pass requires the automatic transmission to downshift 2 gears and is still not a particlarly blistering acceleration.

The car that *I* own is an '03 SAAB 9^3 Vector. It has lots of power, snappy acceleration, decent handling, good comfort and gets 32 mpg (actual) on the highway.

Compared to the Vector, the Chevy is a dog. But it's free and comes with free gas and maintenance from my company.

Let us know where, we will get that fixed ASAP!

WHen you park the RV, you spend a lot of time leveling it so that all the plumbing systems work. So, you bring along a car for trips once the RV is parked.

He, he, bigger is better! Seriously, most people here tend to equate quantity with quality at restaurants. They also consume a lot of crap that shouldn't go into their bodies in quantity.

We spent several years scraping out that canyon, I'm glad you like it. It was just flat ground when we started.

Some countries have learned this, some companies, there are many left of both that still need to learn.

Well Ed, I'm truly glad you're happy with the Sonata. It seems to me from the frequency I see them on the road these days that a lot of folks are happy with them, and I'm confident Honda is truly concerned over the recent success. To me comparing a Sonata to an Accord is a true apples to apples comparison.

I suppose my only point, and I think you'll agree, that if one is seeking a plush riding Lexus quiet superbly comfortable car, the Lucerne is a great choice - one that I'll give serious consideration within a few months.

On the other hand, if one is seeking an outstanding daily driver that offers a degree of sportiness, solid tight handling, lots of features at a great price (and warranty)... then the Sonata is an outstanding choice. (as would be the Accord, Mazda, Altima, Camry).

Have a great day.

Willy

Actually it's the burping that releases most of the methane !

Graham

You'd think that, but I was in an Accord last Wednestday. It was OK, but not impressive. Based on my short experience, I'd not go any further to check them out to buy.

Check out the Azera. Really, a very close match to the Lucerne. ).

Thanks, it has been so far.

There are many good people here.. Especially among the campers.

Yep. Shows sometimes, makes noise, smells.

Are you trying to say, gently, that American women tend to be lardasses???

It ISNT flat??;>)

I know that a lot of stupid people thinks the earth is round ;-)

Eeyore proclaimed:

Although cows contribute signifantly more, humans emit a more dangerous greenhouse gas, methane, as a byproduct of digestion.