Is it really any wonder that GM is sinking like the Titanic? Other than the
Intake Gasket Failure infestation problem the next big problem is GM
styling. I used to love the look of the previous coke bottle body style of
the Grand Prix as was ready to buy one, but then they came out with the
current body style GP, and everytime I see those ugly things they remind me
of a hi-top sneaker with wheels. Then a few years ago they showed the
prototype of the Pontiac G6 which I thought was a real beauty, so I decided
to wait and get one but instead they abandoned the protype designed and
released this boring monstrousity of a car that they refer to as sleek. The
sedan is a fat dumpy looking turtle that only a woman could love. The very
few I have seen on the road were all driven by women. Then they released the
G6 coupe which is a cross between a Toyota Solaris and a Pontiac Sunfire
thats been jacked up in the back. Whats up with this jacked up in the back
rear end look that so many GM cars have? Doesnt GM realize by now that the
70s are over and people are no longer putting wide 60 series tires on cars
that require the rears to be lifted to clear the wheel wells?? If GM were
paying attention they would see that people like cars lower and sleeker.
Another big failure is the GTO name plate being put on a foreign car, and an
ugly car at that. Then we have what was known as the Aztek failure, another
costly mistake. Pontiac damn near did a recall on that one just for being
ugly. How long did that one last before being dropped...2 years? So now what
does Pontiac now have thats worth looking at?? The Solstice...which is
probably fun, but impractical for the average buyer. Unless Pontiac has some
major offering in the next year or 2, then Pontiac may be next to hit the
chopping block which is ashame because I grew up loving Pontiacs in their
hey day. But you cant blame anyone but GM...seems to me its just as easy to
build a beautiful car as it is to build an ugly one.
Sounds like you need to find a venture capitalist to help you execute
your styling concepts. Besides, GM still has an extra division or two
to give up before they really need to get serious.
Personally, I can't speak about styling. Give me a box that carries
things, gets fair mileage, and lasts a long time and I am happy.
At the end of the day, you hit the nail on the head. I believe the
majority of NEW car buyers ( those who GM courts) feel the same way.
I know I do. We have my '93 Eldo which is a money pit, my wife's '93
Camry which has cost just $100 in non-maintenance repairs since new,
and my '04 Express van which has had two fluid leaks and has just 3500
miles on it. Unless I start hearing about GM owners doing the dance of
joy in the streets over quality, my next car will be a Lexus.
Reliability is the backbone of any car manufacture. No one wants to sink
>$20 grand into any product that do not give the best return on investment.
Unless the product generates so much excitement that people are willing to
put up with the repairs. Example: Harley Davidsons. I think GM has come a
long way on delivering reliability, however, they have not started making
exciting products yet. GM is not a car enthusiast company. Read all the
review comparing the Pontiac Solstice to the Miata. Across the board, the
Miata wins on handling and road feel. By that I don't mean just road grip. I
mean driver feedback, responsiveness and precision. Even a GM spokesman
admits that their car is different from the Miata in that it is designed to
isolate the driver from the road. Their car is meant for a different type of
I wonder what kind of customer would like a car that has no road feel what
so ever. It would have to be a customer who hates driving, and go to great
lengths to isolate himself from the road. What kind of car company would
build a car that purposely don't give you feedback from the road because
they want to isolate you from the driving experience. I have to conclude it
must be a company that thinks of driving as painful, and don't want anything
to remind you that you are driving a car. They themselves must also hate
cars, and think of them as a necessary evil.
I don't care how the car looks. Given two cars with equal reliability, I
would pick the car designed by people who are enthusiastic about their
product. Every time I get into a GM car, I am reminded that driving is
painful, so all road feel must be isolated from the driver. The seat feels
like a living room couch. Everything are soft and have that isolated feel to
it. Soon, you understand and share their pain in driving a cars. There is no
excitement here. Ironically, GM spends millions trying to tell people that
Pontiac is exciting, but then their product tells you that driving is
Best GM can do is to put quality steering components in their cars, make the
silky smooth. Design suspension unique for each car. Is just so pathetic to
hear that the rear suspension from the Solstice comes from an SUV. Miata
would never do that, because engineers who love driving designed that car.
Once the new look of Solstice fades, is going to be another failure because
simply there is no excitement there. Is like driving a car designed by a
little old lady. It will get you there, but it treats you like a frail old
man that can't stand any road feel in the steering wheel.
I live in San Diego - a densely populated urban environment where I
find driving to be rather less than fun: lots of traffic and lots of
The majority of my driving is to and from work. I just want to
accomplish that feat in 1. safety, and 2. comfort. I do not need to
have a flashy, expensive, road-responsive automobile to sit in while
grid-locked. I also do not want to feel the ruts in the road that my
taxes should be paying to fix.
If I lived on some sparsely driven, curvy mountain road, then a Miata
would be great fun, but down here in motoring hell, you bet I want to
be isolated from the driving experience!
When my Lumina wears out I am going to get a new one.
grid-locked in San Diego
The point the poster is making is don't make a box and then call it sleek.
If you make a dependable car then its just as easy to wrap it in a nice
package as oppossed to Blah Ze'. Thats what sells cars, it doesnt take
a rocket scientist to understand that.
for style. Who doesn't know a 67 GTO or a 73 GTO Judge. The image pops
right to mind. Then again a Black Bandit. Don't even need to name the
car (TA BY the way). A 69 Bonnie. Even a 59 Chieftan. It started with
the 80's box-styling that was the big downward spin. Granted. They
started to do something right in the early 90's. I think to myself that
my old 95 GA GT has a sexier look to her than the generic ricer look of
the new G6. Coming down the road can't tell a G6 from a GP now. I really
liked the style of the coke-bottle GP also. The Aztek. OMG. What
happened to the TransSport or even the Montana? And with GM in general I
couldn't believe the "artistic" styling they came out with when the
Aztek came out. Caddy's used to have class. Now they're a joke. And the
style carried over to the trucks. I think Dodge and Ford had the right
idea. Go retro. The new charger. The 300, the retro Mustang. The remade
T=bird. Now imagine taking a 2004 GA and making some body mods to make
it look like the 73 Judge. Or even the GP to the Judge. That'd be sweet,
and doable. Taking a good name and plastering it on a piece of crap is
still a piece of crap. Remember the last incarnation of the GTO, that
horrid little hatchback that looked almost like the Aztek.
That's a sad commentary on your linguistic ability, my short-peckered
Well, that senstence made sense until you mentioned the Judge! That was
possibly the fattest ugliest GM car ever made! Give your head a shake
Ewwww! That was a Gino car that most of us would rather forget! What's
wrong with you?
Oh man! Another fat cow! How can a man with such poor taste even
consider commenting on the topic of "Styling"???
No Cage-Man! It started with the Judge and its bulbous ilk!!!
What was that old Every Brothers tune? "Dream, Dream, Dream, Dream"!!!
Hey Cage-Man, a lot of people have poor eye sight. Don't let it get you
We finally agree on something Cage-Man!
Cage-Man! I agree with every comment here! Wow! We can get along!
Right again Cage-Man! They had a little class. Very little!
Cage-Man, you got that back asswards! Now they have class! Those sharp
edges of the STS, CTS and SLR are hot!
The "new Charger" isn't worthy of carrying that name! It is an
abomination! Cage-Man - a 4 door Charger!!! Get real!!! And that awful
300 is a complete abortion, if you'll excuse the term! That last 300
series Chrysler that was worthy of the logo was made in the 50's! That
box they call a 300 now is completely square and lacking in
aerodynamics! Not to mention, the so-called "hemi" option isn't even a
hemi, because IT DOES NOT HAVE HEMISPHERICAL COMBUSTION CHAMBERS!!! A
COMPLETE AND UTTER MARKETING FRAUD!!!!
Ya got me there Cage-Man - I have a soft spot for that sweet retro "Stang!
I really liked it too, but it was overpriced and didn't sell too well
and was discontinued.
Oh puleeeeze Cage-Man! I just had a late dinner! The 2004 GA's & GP's
both surpass that fat ladybug style of the Goat Judge! Give us all a break!
I agree a little bit of both of you. On the one hand, I think Cadillac
styling is pretty successful in the market place. They have new products.
Pontiac does not. Also, as the other argued, I can't see any difference
between a Grand Am, a Grand Prix, and a Bonneville. As a result, two of them
aren't built any more. They were superfluous.
GM has not been very interested in coming up with products for Pontiac and
Buick. Cadillac, comparitively, is a priority. Pontiac is getting one real
product, the solstice. It looks good, but of course I doubt they'll sell
very many, because the 2-seater market is pretty small, and there are a
bunch of cars in that market.
It's kind of amazing, really, that Pontiac managed to make it through the
SUV years without an SUV. They have never had one. Even Buick has them.
Cadillac has 4!
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