GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants

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I guess these things are all subjective and just one guy's experience. I have a hard time not commenting here, though, with respect to this due to my experience with GM vehicles. I've got a '93 Chev. diesel pickup with 208,000 m. on it that has been without any major problems. Particularly the turbodiesel engine. Absolutely rock solid reliability and this truck has not been coddled at all. Had a '79 and an '83 of the same vehicle with the exact same experience. Even the paint jobs never faded out on me and they still looked good until the last day I had them. The only Jap car I ever owned was back when I was working in Saudi Arabia. A Datsun that spum out a rod bearing and left me beside the road. A friend I worked with bought one of those new Nissan small pickups. He'd had it about a year when he started in our work parking lot and the crank pully broke off at the crankshaft. You read that right. The crankshaft snapped off flush with the front of the engine. I'm not saying this has never happened to a GM vehicle, just that I've never heard of it and I've been around for 56 yrs. I just do not agree at all with this business of GM not building reliable vehicles, but, again, it's just my personal experience.
Garrett Fulton
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When the price of a car approaches $20grand ( or more ) people want more than styling and slogans.
You can't say that Japanese cars are priced any cheaper than comparable American sedans.
You can't even allude to overseas assembly. Several Japanese brands are assembled in the US
And yet when all is said and done, consumers vote with their dollars, and they're rejecting the Detroit product.
<rj>
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I can accept that. But, I can also say that I have had relatives (just as yourself) who have had Chevy trucks last well past 400,000 with nothing major done to it, and the other day a friend stopped by with a Cavalier which had already rolled the odometer once, and they were quite pleased with the car as well. As for Honda's, I cant really comment on them as I have never owned one, and I have a strictly GM family (I live in Oshawa Ontario, so a lot of them work at the plant there, and a couple more work for GM dealerships), however my mother's boyfriend does have a Civic. Though, I once again can't comment on it as I have never driven it, and he does not know much about them as he trades it in every 2 or so years. I guess basically, every car company makes the occasional 'pearl' and every company makes the occasional 'lemon'.
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Hey, I live near Oshawa, too and my husband and I have both worked at GM over 20 years. I buy a new car every couple years and only had one Cavalier many years ago that was a piece of junk. Ironically, I bought it because it had been made in Ohio rather than Mexico. My family's experience has been excellent, as well. Also, we have gotten a few things "goodwilled", i.e. paid for (bearings on a Rendezvous, head gasket on a Venture), after the vehicles were well out of warranty. Sometimes you just have to ask.
GM and Toyota share the top quality awards. It is mostly a false perception, based on the past, that GM's quality is poor. The plant they are axing in Oshawa has the best quality in North America, of all the companies.
Jane

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Oshawa - top quality product - closing Buick City - many JD Power awards - gone 3800 V6 - a fantastic engine for years - going away.
Sometimes it makes you wonder.......
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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wrote:

Yes, it sure does. Two plants will remain in Oshawa, a second car plant and a truck plant, plus stamping and triaxle, so we're not a ghost town just yet (The axle plant is technically Delphi, although the employees still have bumping rights to the rest of the complex)
They need to ditch Wagoner...like, yesterday!
Jane

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wrote:

I read somewhere that the 3800 has been built (in varying styles) for over 40 years, and it is in my opinion the best engine I have ever owned or driven. I get 210 horsepower, 230 torque, all in a 4000 pound car that can do 0-60 in 7.8 seconds and still get 30mpg on the highway, and yet they still want to get rid of the engine. Makes me think that someone from Honda is actually running GM trying to ruin them....
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I think it depends on the dealership you go to. Some are very co-operative and will assist you in any way they can.

Tell me about it. Ticked me off something fierce when I read they were closing that plant. They need to fire that idiot in charge and get the company rolling again.

80K
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Many don't believe it will actually happen. Likely wishful thinking, but we'll see. They will want concessions, especially mandatory overtime. It may also depend on the dollar and other things we have no control over.
Jane

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<snip>

Quality is definitely a major component to consider, when consolidating operations, but so too is profitablity. In this regard, Oshawa is said to be highly profitable and I have heard that Canadian operations account for some $ 500Million in actual profits, while many other divisions lose Millions. The only problem with the profitability numbers we are hearing for Canada is that intercompany pricing between parent and subsidiaries is fuzzy at the best of times. Any division can be made to appear profitable OR losing money, depending on inter-company pricing and Corporate whims. These decisions are most often tax driven. So it's really hard to know which divisions really are making money. Having said that, GM would have to be "dumb as a post" to close down any profitable division, given the sea of red ink they are mired in.

Jane, on the plus side, there's a lot of time before any job losses are actually scheduled to take place in Oshawa. There are good possibilities for any number of things to happen, including:
1. The Grand Prix manufacturing line could be replaced with a new product line or even an existing product, should it be economically feasible.
2. There is a strong possibility of government intervention at both the Provincial and Federal levels. Hey, we're looking at a Federal election in the new year - let's make it clear to local candidates that we want this on the election platform!
3. Now here's a sore spot with many GM employees, but it's worth mentioning. Employees have to help themselves and set the example for the rest of us. Jane and 80 Knight, I encourage you both to take a drive by the employee parking lots of all the truck and car plants in Oshawa. I did it yesterday (before the snow started last night!) and I was appalled by two things; a) the number of non-GM cars in the employee lot; b) the number of non-North American cars in the employee lot. I would suggest to you that the percentage of Korean cars in the parking lot exceeds the Oshawa average. Christ, if GM employees don't drive their product, why should the rest of the population??? I say this with a certain amount of pain in my heart because I am a true blue GM guy, presently owning 4 GM products and zero non-GM products.
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I remember once my Dad saying when he worked at the Oshawa plant and the Lada (if memory serves) came out, a couple workers bought one and brought them to work. They finished there shift, and went outside to find there cars destroyed. Not a good idea to bite the hand that feeds you.
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LMAO! 80 Knight, at risk of sounding like a redneck, that is poetic justice! I think it is unconscionable for an employee of any auto manufacturer to own a vehicle from a competitor, unless of course, it is an older classic. Your Lada story reminds me of my own Lada story. For a short period back in the 80's I was in a carpool with 3 other guys. We all owned small econo-box commuter cars, (I owned a Chevette with an Automatic, so my wife could drive it!)but one of the guys was so embarrassed about driving a Lada, that he tore off the name plates and told every who didn't know better that it was a Fiat! Then we explained to him that a Fiat really wasn't much of an improvement over a Lada. He finally broke down and bought a Chevelle!
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A Chevelle? Now theres a car! Love those things, just wish I could afford one ;-) Anyhow, though I would not have been one of the people out there destroying the Lada (or whichever competitor's car) I would be bitching out the owner of it. If you work for GM, you can damn well buy GM, cause IMHO, if you don't like there cars that much, then you shouldn't be working for them in the first place.
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Amen to that.
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80 Knight wrote:

Ah yes, the dark side of Union Power .... threat, intimidation, property damage, even lethal force. I still remember during the trucking strikes of my youth when union truckers would stand on overpasses and drop rocks on the windshields of any trucks which were still on the road. Killed several people as I recall. That was a formative bit of news in my youth and left a very bad impression of unions ... that and the whole gang involvement bit along with the history of the mob and unions "investing" in Las Vegas in Vegas' early days.
John
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Hey, if the guy drives his Lada into a GM parking lot, it should be destroyed. What about you, John? Will you suffer when the GM closers happen? If not, then shut the hell up. You take your Honda, Toyota and other pieces of foreign crap and drive it all you want. *I* will support the company who I should. The company who I respect, and the company who puts a *lot* of money into my community. Can you say the same? All I have seen from you is trollish behavior. If you hate GM so much then get out of the group, or stop bitching.
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Destroying those Ladas was very stupid. If they had just waited a few years the Ladas would have self destructed and demonstrated their very poor quality.
Continuing to support GM when they have demonstrated very poor management is just sticking ones head in the sand. I feel very sorry for the GM workers who are watching their company fold around them, because of very poor management.
Many of us (me included) were strong GM supporters and users, but have recently been frustrated with the poor designs they have been marketing. In addition GM importing cars from Korea and soon China simply demonstrates they are off track. IMO the GM workers would be better off if a very well managed company such as Toyota took over the GM plants.
Another example of poor management is Stelco. They are a basket case, yet next door Dofasco, the kid on the block, has been doing so well a European company has offered an excess amount of cash to buy them out.
Unfortunately company history is full of stories where poor management has caused company failure. The only solution is a complete overhaul of the company.
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wrote:

Hey, I am all for getting new management and what not into the company. They need new people with new idea's. But, I'm sorry. I can not stand 'non big 3' cars. Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia. Heck, I don't like many Chrysler's or Ford's, but I have always liked GM's vehicles. I look at Honda's and they just make me sick. The style (IMHO) is just terrible. Sure, they can get 30Mpg, but so can my Bonneville, and it has a hell of a lot more power, room and luxury. You know something, I honestly don't think anyone can understand what it is like to live in this part of Ontario without growing up here. The Oshawa GM plant is a huge part of this place. It gives a lot of people jobs, and does a lot for the town, and the surrounding ones. Just the mere thought of what is going on actually happening sickens me, because I know the impact it will have on my family, and countless others. Some of you seem to think that working 40 hours a week doing the work these people do for $25 an hour is the easiest thing in the world. Well, go ahead and give it a try. Do it for one week, and then tell me what you think of it.
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wrote:

There is definitely a price to be paid for the income and benefits we enjoy. When I started there in '82, you could look forward to getting off the line in about 9 years. With productivity improvements and outsourcing, those days are long gone. Most of us will be on the line almost our whole career and will retire disabled in one way or another. I've had surgeries on both my hands. My husband has had skin rashes from lubricants in the air guns (has been tested at St. Mike's). Not to mention the mind-numbing nature of the work. Fine; we made the choice to work there (I have a science degree, but went to GM because it paid better than contract work for the MNR and because I could forget my job at the end of the day). GM has allowed us a pretty good life and we've been able to invest along the way in case our pensions are lost.
There is some "dead wood" in there (as there is anywhere), but they are few and far between. Most of us work our butts off.

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wrote:

Exactly. And that is what some people can not seem to grasp. They think that you just sit there on your butt all day and do nothing, while making $25 an hour. Well, I guess it's easy for someone to say its simple work when they have never done it.
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