When the price of a car approaches $20grand ( or more ) people want more than styling and slogans.
You can't say that Japanese cars are priced any cheaper than comparable American sedans.
You can't even allude to overseas assembly. Several Japanese brands are assembled in the US
And yet when all is said and done, consumers vote with their dollars, and they're rejecting the Detroit product.
I figure the main reason is because the unions are losing members and workplaces and many of the new places are non union. The big shots in the unions are losing money because of it so they are trying to attach themselves to a new tit. I don't figure it will be that long before unions are gone completely and people who are used to having jobs due to "seniority" will have to prove they can actually do a job.
It's a lot like the teachers unions that fight merit based pay tooth and nail because it means MANY of thier members will be very low paid. Want to know the real reason that many other countries have much better education, they do not allow unions.
Where does this $65 per hour figure come from? When I retired in Feb, I was getting $31.00 per hour. If the 65 figure is to be believed, my benefits cost GM $34.00 per hour, or $68,000 per year based on a 2000 hour work year!
I pay 50% of all office visits. One of the three prescriptions I take is not covered by my GM health insurance. I pay $130.00 per month for that out of my pocket.
Whose fault is it that the PhD's chose a low paying field?
How much should we give? For 40 years, GM told me I would receive these benefits. For 40 years I was promised a pension when I retired. That pension is $1800.00 per month, BTW.
One of the plants closing is the Flint, MI, Powertrain North plant where the
3800 V6 is built. They have 633 hourly employees and 102 salary, per today's Detroit papers. That's 6.2 hourly for every salary employee. In the plant I worked in, in the same complex, one department has 1 supervisor for every 4 employees. The plant I used to work in recently eliminated the 2nd shift. All the 2nd shife supervisors were moved to the day shift. There were NO salary cuts. I know that topheavy management is not part of the problem, though. It's always the greedy workers on the plant floor.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site:
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I doubt the OP has ever been in an auto plant, let alone worked in one.
I retired in Feb as an electrician. In the year previous to my retirement, 4 other electricians in my plant were told that GM no longer had jobs for them. All 4 had suffered in-plant injuries.
Don't even mention the "legal services" plan. It's worthless. All the "lawyers tell you is to go hire a lawyer.
Amen.
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Web Site:
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"Spam Hater" wrote >
Just out of curiosity, what "function" does a Honda or Toyota have that can't be found on a GM vehicle?
Dave
Which GM cars did you look and what made you reject them? I'm curious because while I was not wholly over-joyed with my last GM car (2000 Yukon XL that had too many minor problems that cost a bunch to fix) it was a good truck. A friend has two last generation Impalas and has had great reliability with them. The new Impalas look to be even better. I think GM is having a near-death experience (as Nissan had) and that is focusing their attention on product. The new Caddies are quite good as are some of the other recent redesigns and the Corvette is superb at its price.
To be fair, Toyota has had big problems with engine oil gelling in their V6's of late and poor operation of their FWD automatic transmissions.
In vehicle integrated Navigation systems are readily available on the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. Try finding them on any $20-$25k US branded vehicle.
I could use a replacement for my 4 wheel drive S-10 (S-14) truck that was made also in 95. The Chevy trucks I saw at the dealer all were bigger, drank more gas, and didn't seem that much more advanced than my 1995 version. Did you read the Consumer Reports article on the new Honda pickup? It said it was the best riding truck they ever tested, it road like a passenger car.
What State are you from? I can't really see my Wally World in Mississippi paying $16.75 an hour.
Exactly. Here in Milwaukee, we've lost several large manufacturing companies because they couldn't afford to pay the union contracts (that yes, THEY agreed to) that were made in the 60's and 70's AND compete with foreign manufacturers.
Yes... there's a reason why companies that employed 10,000 people thirty years ago are now out of business.
I fear for anybody who actually has to depend on their pension for post-retirement income.
I have no grudge against union contracts. If companies signed them, good for the unions. Unions have helped a LOT in this nation's history. Unfortunately, unions in the developing nations like China, Brazil, and India, are pretty much nonexistant... which means China, Inc, can make a widget for $.25 while America, Inc, has to charge $3.50 in order to cover benefits and federal regulations.
Its a pretty sad way to watch the American industrial base fall apart.
Actually, I do try to buy American wherever practical. However, often times it costs me significantly more money, and sometiems much more than I can afford.
I would LOVE for the develping nations to be forced to unionize and regulate their industries as we do. It certainly would be better for the environment, AND it would allow America to actually compete as an industrial nation.
But since Chinese corporations have a base of BILLIONS to draw from, they can fire any employees that demand ANYTHING, and have them replaced with somebody who has comperable skills in literally hours.
Actually, I believe you completely. I'm sure Wal-Mart has great benefits... but they're great benefits because only 40% of the Wal_mart workforce actually QUALIFIES to receive benefits, which means they have a much lower potential cost than your averge company which employs more full-time workers than part-time.
Can't disagree at all with that one.
Sad thing is, I know people who are ex-union because they choose to be... They may have just had a rare bad experience, but all the people I know who are ex-union tell me stories about how their union leaders told them to work slower and less efficiently so management wouldn't wonder why EVERYONE wasn't working as hard.
Sad. I hope ALL unions aren't like that.
You are kidding right? A quick search will reveal that Jags quality ratings and annual sales, under Ford, have far exceed those of anytime in Jags history.
mike
You can get a Pontiac Pursuit that starts at $16,140 Canadian with OnStar which does do directions. Not everyone needs a little TV to show them where to go.
Where did you get that erroronius idea? Toyotas average pay and benefits package is only around 2/3 of what they pay their union workers in the GM/Toyota plant in California.. Workers in the other Toyota plants, where they merely assemble Toyotas of mostly imported parts, are being informed of that fact by UAW organizers.
mike
"doug" UAW workers earn. Their biggest advantage (in addition to well engineered
"OnStar" is just another promotional gimmick that you have to pay for. Like cable TV that was suppose to be inexpensive and commercial free when it started, it now cost 6 times as much or more and has as many if not more commercials than regular TV. I expect OnStar to increase in price as the years pass and you will probably be driving down the road with it telling you where to shop and eat and sleep as time goes by.
Mississippi
New York
The Distribution centers starting pay is 10.75 hr. Wife has been there 5 years.
The stores starting pay depends on the job. Greeters get 6.50 or so Cashiers start at 7.75 Deli help starts at 8.50 T&L start at 9.50 > based on experience and title.
And they do it by choice. My brother is a teacher - has been for 28 years. He never complains about getting off on ALL holidays, weekends, and the entire summer. I truly appreciate what is involved in their job, BUT, they're always dry when it rains, warm when it's cold, etc. Their life is a lot easier than the midnight shift on an auto assembly line.
And whose fault is that? Certainly not the autoworkers! It is the MANAGEMENT of the auto companies that are to blame for designing non-innovative products. And let's not forget the auto buying public and their insane lust for monsterous SUV's. The industry has been satisfying that demand - but with blinders on toward the future.
On the other hand, according to JD Power and other auto industry analysts, the autoworkers are doing a great job of assembling what they are given to work with - US auto quality is up, in spite of Detroit designers.
Sure you can - Honda and Toyota are paying their US workers close to what UAW workers earn. Their biggest advantage (in addition to well engineered products) is an absence of legacy costs. Their workers, per se, are no more efficient than UAW workers. It's the assembly process that gives them an edge. Again, management leadership.
That would be because it is a car.
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