GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants

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I'm sure you do but management have not been designing and building the cars many people want. I know GM is trying to upgrade their designs now, but it's coming a bit late.
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wrote:

Agreed. The union has been telling them that for years (I'm not a huge union booster, but I will give credit where due).
Jane
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I agree with you on styling of the Hondas and Toyotas, but being an engineer for me styling follows function. If the function isn't there I'm not interested in even a test drive. The NA car companies go in cycles, unfortunately Chrysler now has nothing to replace my '95 Concord. Since it runs beautifully I can wait it out for a while, even though I'm quite capable financially of buying anytime. I don't even like the styling of the Chrysler 300 and from two weeks driving a rental I know I don't like driving it. However I wouldn't even take a 300 test drive because 25 years of FWD have convinced me that's what I want to stick with.

I'm in agreement with you here as well, but face the facts that GM is putting the company ahead of the workers. GM is closing NA plants while importing more and more GM branded foreign built cars.
FYI I won't buy a foreign built car branded by a the big 3. My reason is the quickness then can discontinue that importing and leave one stranded with an orphan vehicle. It's happened before. If I buy an import it will be from a foreign car company importing their own product.
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You've reminded me of another interesting consideration. Dofasco is non-union! Interesting.
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True, but Dofasco's workers benefited from the union contracts at Stelco. Not only is Dofasco non union, I believe it is profit sharing.
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There is no question that Dofasco workers have benefited from union contracts at Stelco over the years. It is noteworthy, however, that the employee profit-sharing program has been offered since 1938! I'd call that pretty forward thinking for its time.
Here's a link to this same information, plus the latest word on the $4.8 Billion Canadian offer from ThyssenKrupp of Germany, which has been accepted:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/29/business/steel.php
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Yes it was. Another similar forward thinking company was Shaw Brick in Nova Scotia. I believe a past NDP leader came from that Shaw family.

Too bad, I held Dofasco shares as an excellent dividend stock, now I have this up front capital gain. Hard to replace that dividend in today's low yield market.

At least I expect they'll not move Dofasco out of CDA.
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80 Knight wrote:

Actually I own a 2002 Olds Silhouette that I paid my hard earned cash for. I don't hate GM, actually I am very sad about the current situation.
I do have a deep disrespect for the use of thuggery to get your way, and trashing a co-workers vehicle because you disagree with his or her purchasing decision is nothing but thuggery.
Friends who only give one praise may help a person *feel* better, but it is accurate constructive criticism which carries the power to help a person or organization *be* better.
Most of my career was spent making non-Intel microprocessors, but it never occurred to any of us to destroy the home computer of a co-worker who bought something with Intel Inside.
I could care less what you think you have seen from me. All I see from you is mindless boosterism and approval of those who use force to get their way. Sounds like you are just another chest pounding thug. Go ahead, yell and scream all you want. It will not do you any good and will probably just contribute to your own poor health. Maybe it is you who need to "get out of the group". This is just an unmoderated usenet newsgroup, hardly a special club :).
John
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No offence, but your posts seem to indicate you have a hatred for GM.

In this instance I would have to disagree. However, if memory serves, the guy's insurance company did buy out the car and he was able to get a new one.

In Gm's case, I feel they do need improvement in certain area's, that I will agree too, however I can not stand it when people come on here claiming how they 'don't care' if GM were to go totally belly up. No, you did not do this, but others have.

Computers are very different then auto's, but how pleased would you and your team have been if other co-workers started bringing Intel computers to work?

Actually, I am on this GM group to try and help others who may have problems with there vehicles. I rarely get into this garbage until someone says something that I consider ignorant.

By the way, seeing how you did not answer my question, I will assume the answer is no. I on the other hand, as well as many others will suffer a great deal when the shifts are shut down. Most of my family work either in the Oshawa plant or for GM in some capicity.
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We would certainly welcome your recommendations to help GM *be* better. You haven't posted such "constructive criticism". Oh, by the way, input into how a person or organization can *be* better, needn't be criticism at all. It can be friendly advise, without criticism. Hmm, we haven't seen that from you either. It might be wise to "practise what you preach".

That's because they didn't park their computers in the company lot every day to put salt in the wound! *lol* You might have felt differently if your company had fallen on hard economic times and you had faced the prospect of being laid off, while your coworkers continued to bring in their computers with "Intel Inside" every day and flaunted Intel's superior technology. That's the comparison you have to consider. You have to walk in the same shoes as the GM employees.

You're right, it's not all about you John. I couldn't agree more. What made you even think it was? We couldn't give a damn about you and your "mindless" drivel.

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All true.

Could happen. They'll want the mandatory overtime deal back (the union got rid of it after GM abused it) and possibly 2-tier wages. I would vote for both to save the place, even though no one in my family will be laid off, due to our seniority.

I already wrote to McGuinty and copied my MPP John O'Toole (PC). I was disgusted with McG's initial reaction...that it was no big deal because they were getting so much auto investment elsewhere. He's since changed his tune, so I'm sure he didn't only hear from me!

I park in it every day, so I don't have to do that, :).
I did it yesterday

I know there are a lot of non-GM cars. The union was after one of the company Drs, as he was driving a Beemer and parking inside the gates! In St. Catherines, they actually made a rule that you had to park in the "back forty" if you drove something else; we should do the same here. If times get reeeally bad, you may see some vandalism happen to some of those cars. I've heard of a few minor cases already.
Myself and my husband both work there and only buy GM; it is taking the bread out of our own mouths not to. I'm surprised so many can't see that! My father was a Superintendent back in the day and he said any salaried personnel drove GM, or they didn't work for him.
Jane

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Jane, it's refreshing to see that someone like yourself would be willing to make concessions that would help others, but concessions which offer no direct benefit to you. That's "Big-Picture" thinking and I applaud you.

Dalton does not impress! He speaks out of both sides of his mouth. His knee-jerk reactions are usually on the wrong side of major issues, but then his cronies set him on the right track. I've met O'Toole several times and I think if his constituents push him, he'll speak up for the community. But he really hasn't done a great job so far, in my humble opinion.

The employee vehicle issue has always been a sore point with me. I think that any non-GM vehicle should be parked at the Oshawa Centre and the employee could walk or catch the bus from there! *lol* I work for a major Canadian corporation which provides company vehicles to senior executives and we are advised that if we want a company vehicle, our vehicle must be manufactured by GM, Ford or Chrysler. And I wholeheartedly support that policy. I just happen to have been partial to GM all my life.
My thoughts and best wishes are with all GM employees at this time.

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The OT thing would actually be a detriment to me, as I hate overtime! I always said I would never vote for mandatory again...the again, during the first go-round I had an infant at home. It would be easier now that he's a teenager!
I'm not all altruism, though. The pension I hope to collect in 6 years needs a workforce to fund it...

Exactly what I believe happened this time.
I've met O'Toole several times and I

No, he hasn't really.

Thank you.

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LMAO! Common sense at its best! Best of Luck to all of you. I'll also be in your corner, for what that's worth. I'd be lost without my GM vehicles.
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I think changed are coming for GM, but I think that the people on this group claiming the company will fall are just being idiots.

80K
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Who cares if GM closes plants. Workers are overpaid for doing jobs trained monkeys can do. They want benefits and all sorts of perks not deserved by blue collar workers. GM designs the ugliest cars (exc vette) with the cheapest interior plastics. I wouldnt buy one. GM even had to use an Isuzu Trooper to win the Race Across Australia. Instead of greedy workers asking for more, they should accept a pay freeze and tell management to put the money into buying better components then quality will rise and then sales will too.
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Why is it that GM and Ford and Chrysler for that matter, can't seem to build a solid reputation for a "type" of car. I mean Honda, Toyota have the reputation for being reliability/quality leaders. Subaru as a AWD and reliability leader, Volvo as a safety leader etc. Matbe the big three are trying to be all things to all people with the result of being only mediocre to non-pragmatic people. I research what I buy, before I buy it. I wouldn't touch a GM regardless of features-for-the-buck. Chrysler and Ford...Ditto. I'm glad GM had to sell off it's FHI (Subaru) interests. It only raises the Subaru name by doing so. GM is crap and until they figure out that long-term proven results with their vehicles will translate into market share. Bad results-declining market share. They cut their own throat with all of the heavy discounting, insulting advertising and shitty cars. Good riddance as far as I'm concerned.
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Your are entitled to you own opinion but it is after all that of a minority. The fact is more buyers prefer the vehicles from GM Ford and Chrysler than prefer either Toyotas or Hondas. Number one GM, sell three times as many vehicles as number four or five Toyota or Honda. Number two Ford, sells more than twice as many vehicles as Toyota or Honda Chrysler sell half again as many as Toyota. With all of the high quality, well built vehicles, offered by GM, Ford and Chrysler today a prudent buyer is not going to spend 20% to 30% more to buy a Toyota or Honda
mike hunt

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On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:26:34 -0500, "Mike Hunter"

Last time I checked, Toyota is #2 and quickly closing.
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Were, in your dreams? ;)
Six months sales figures individual vehicles
. Ford F-Series 432,969 . Chevrolet Silverado 322,907 . Dodge Ram pickup 223,609 . Toyota Camry 213,625 . Honda Accord 192,106 . Ford Explorer 168,059 . Honda Civic 162,483 . Ford Taurus 144,035 . Chevrolet Impala 139,460 . Dodge Caravan 131,367
mike
wrote:

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