Damn those women who have more money then you, eh?
You are an idiot. Saturn's sell. If GM were to get rid of a line, it
should be Buick. Chevy does the "cheaper" cars, Cadillac does the "luxury"
cars, and Pontiac does the "performance" cars. Buick is pretty much a blend
of all of those.
I heard on the news yesterday that Saturn and SAAB were likely to go, as
as Buick. Saturn never returned the results GM wanted, if my information is
And GM didnt seem to know what to do with SAAB.
Buick was a good blend of some of those cars, but it wasnt a young person's
and it suffered - as most GM lines suffered - from some of the unnecessarily
undependable characteristics of GM engineering and sourcing that we have
discussed so many times. I LIKED Buicks, but I didnt like trying to keep
A few years ago my Buick dealer said they were getting a lot of Caddy owners
that thought the Buick was a better value and Cadillac prices were just
getting too high. BUT, there are new models now and they appeal to a
broader base, especially a younger crowd. I'd not be surprised at all if
they joined the Oldsmobile.
Edwin Pawlowski turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
IMO, it makes sense.
You have us Saturn/Chevy owners (and I'm not so sure Saturn has a reason to
exist these days) the Pontiac few who like their sport cars and Cadillac
for luxury cars. I'd say even get rid of Pontiac.
You'd have Chevy for cars/trucks, GMC for trucks/heavy trucks and Cadillac
for luxury cars/trucks.
No reason to have the others. As it is, they make a standard engine for all
lines instead of line-specific engines as they used to. What's the point
of the differentiation anymore?
What about GMC? you can buy almost the same thing in chevy anyway
(small trucks). Kill the same vehicle in three car lines.
What GM needs to do is scrap the dealer organization as it is now
and make them all "GM dealers". Each dealer can sell ALL the nameplates.
(they all come from the same people anyway) Chevys setting next to
Cadallacs sitting next to a Saturn.
Ford needs to do the same.
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It is easy for us to say "eliminate one or more brands"; damn near
IMPOSSIBLE to do. The stumbling point is the various state auto dealer
franchise laws. It cost something like $2 billion for GM to wind down
Having said that, here's my own plan:
1) Sell Hummer and Saab (not sure who would want Hummer, but I can see
Tata buying Saab). I never could figure out why GM bought Saab, except
for the fact that Ford bought Volvo and they didn't want to get
2) Eliminate BOTH Pontiac and Buick (in the US anyway, but keep Buick
as an overseas brand. Last year GM sold more Buicks in China than they
did in the US)
3) Recast Saturn as GMs "mid range" brand (to cover the Buick/Pontiac
4) Keep the GMC nameplate for the HD trucks and speciality stuff like
tow truck and motor home chassis. That way GM has the option of
letting the Chevy truck dealers handle the GMC line or sell the HD
stuff through a general line truck dealer.
From an internal GM standpoint, killing Buick would be the toughest
item, since GM was built with Buick as its original foundation.
One final item: I don't know how this is shaping up in the rest of the
country but out here on the west coast you find almost no Buick or
Pontiac dealers; most are combination Buick/Pontiac/GMC (and some of
those are former Oldsmobile dealers as well). Here in Sacramento
recently one of the largest Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealers turned in his
franchise because his kids don't want to go into the auto business
(damn shame too, since the grandfather of the present owner was THE
original Buick dealer in Sacramento back in like 1910).
The largest Cadillac dealer in town picked up the combo and now sells
and services Buick, Pontiac, GMC and Cadillac from one location.
The next couple of years are going to be VERY interesting, and not
just in the car business.
Went to our local Toyota dealer, drove the 7 passenger Highlander. Wanted a
built in navigator...said two Highlanders will be in in three days with the
navigator. Never got a call after three weeks.
Went to a Honda dealer to look at the new Pilot. After 1/2 hour walking
around in the show room, we, wife and I, never was approached by anyone.
And they were not that busy.
I said forget this. Went to our GMC/Buick dealer, drove the Arcadia and
Buick, and bought the Buick and love it. It drives like a charm, trouble
free for 20K miles and rides better that the Highlander and the Pilot
(friend has one).
At a separate time, chatting with a person (55 years old) whose dad has had
a dealership. He and his dad always went to the auto shows somewhere in
Michigan. He said that many Toyota salesmen these past few years have a
reputation of being cavalier and arrogant.
Well I bought a Pontiac, Parisienne 'wagon' in '87 and I'm still
driving it regular.
Hmm, maybe that's the problem . . .
anyway, it has a 307 that won't quit and an overdrive automatic tranny
the engine rpm on the highway just perfect. I was hoping to buy
in a few years, I hope they don't drop that brand. (Even though most
of my car is
really a Chev. wink wink)
If you want to see cavalier and arrogant, buy a Lexus. The more often one
buys the more cavalier and arrogant the dealership becomes. Now I buy
Lincolns that have proven to be just as good as any comparable size Lexus I
ever owned and the Lincolns are at least $20,000 less expensive to boot.
They talk about the great resale value of Toyotas and Lexus, try and get if
from one of their dealerships. The last Lexus I owned was a 97, when I
wanted to buy a 1999 the dealership was offering me $10,000 below NADA
average trade for my LS, with only 19,000 miles on the clock, on a $57,000
LS. I did what you did, I walked out stopped at a FLM Dealership that
gave me $12,000 more than did the Lexus dealer. I ended up buy two cars
from him a 2000 Lincoln LS, a new model that just came out, and a 1999
Mustang GT convertible. I will never buy another import.
Since then I have purchased a 2002, 2004, 2005 Lincoln LS, 2006 Lincoln
Zephyr, 2008 MKZ, a 2001, 2003, 2005, 2007 and 2009 Mustang GT convertibles
from that FLM dealer. They treat me right, they inspect my cars, change
the oil for free and the cars are washed and the gas tank is always full
when the bring it back to my home ;)
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