GM vs Toyota

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You information is not correct. GM's 'share' of the market is down, as a percentage of the ever growing market, but GM's total sales are UP. GM sells more vehicles today then when it had 50%
of the US market in the fifties because the total number of vehicles sold was less than half of what it is today. Do some research before you post on a subject of which you apparently have little or no knowledge, WBMA
mike hunt
John Horner wrote:

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On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:09:33 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

I think when he's referring to "share" he's referring to what percentage of the total market GM holds. regardless of the # of unit's sold.
but I could be misinterpreting his point....
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I guess by 2007 even in total # vehicles sold, GM will be second to Toyota. Here is the story link:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ft/041221/6d163716_534c_11d9_b6e4_00000e2511c8_1.html
Last year, Toyota zoomed past America's Ford to become the world's second largest car-marker by unit sales. Now it is chasing General Motors, the largest group. On Tuesday Toyota forecast that its sales will rise 7 per cent next year, to 8.03m units. It also pledged to sell 8.5m units in 2006 - or the same as GM.
Moreover, in the metrics that truly matter to investors, Toyota is already way ahead. In the first nine months of this year, its profits were almost as high as the "Big Three" US carmakers combined. Meanwhile margins were about twice as big - not least because Toyota, unlike the Big Three, has not offered hefty sales incentives in the US, where it now holds a 12 per cent market share.

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That is what a *trend* will do over time. This isn't a surprise to some of us. What is surprising is that GM management doesn't seem to know what to do to turn things around (or isn't trying).

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On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:41:42 -0500, "James C. Reeves"

I worked for an AMerican computer company that went "belly-up".
In the preceeding years, management alternated between; Reducing our benefits Increasing the work-load Fattening up executive bonus/pension packages.
<rj>
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GM sales are up for 2004, and they sell far more than any other manufacture. They must be doing something right. What is with the comparison with Toyota? Even Ford sells more that twice as many vehicles as Toyota ;)
mike hunt
"James C. Reeves" wrote:

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the only thing GM has done right is initiated HUGE incentives, cheap price moves cars.
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Some idiots will buy anything they see advertised on TV.
message

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Is that the reason Toyota spends more per vehicle on advertising than any other manufacture? ;)
mike hunt
Rog wrote:

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What is you point? When I worked as a Sales Manager the most important question the customer asked before signing on the dotted line was, 'How mush is my monthly payment?' Even $20 made a difference in their decision to buy.;)
mike hunt
Derek Clarke wrote:

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Go ahead Mike, drink the coolaid. GM is doing a terrific job and manages the best run automobile company on the planet. Everything is going great. Nothing to worry about. Silence the critics. Everything is fine, everything is fine, every ....thing ...... is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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wrote:

So that's the Christmas Cheer! :-)
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On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:42:18 -0500, "James C. Reeves"

This I believe is the heart of GM's issue. It's not necessarily the vehicle's (my Olds is flawless approaching the quarter million mile mark) but I never ever take it near the dealer.
There are issues with every car. My '81 Supra got really light in the front end at anything over 100 MPH & I never really got the A/C to work like a vehicle sold in N-America should work. but the dealer was always behind me 100%.
GM / Ford & Chrysler engineer's are the best in the world BUT ! when you've got a company founded by bean counters (GM) lead by bean counters & operated by bean counters the end customer's (the dealers) are going to get shafted by the short sided sods. That'll make it's way to the customer's invariably..
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It's your money spend it were you wish buy I hope you don't have one of those Toyotas with what Toyota calls an oil 'gelling' problem that is eating up engines. Or a Toyota out of warranty with the reoccurring brake problem that is eating up rotors or one with the early tranny failure problem between 40K and 50K. ;)
mike hunt
Trout Fisherman wrote:

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On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 12:40:38 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

GM has a problem with rotors and brakes being eaten up prematurely.
The problems are not localized to any one manufacturer, more likely a select group of suppliers providing sub-statndard parts.
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That was my point, Brad. Believing any one manufacture makes vehicles that are far superior to another in the same price range is a myth. From what we see in our business, and we service them all, all manufactures are building good vehicles today. They ALL build some that are not up to snuff, as well, that is why they all have a warranty. The only real difference is style and price. Japanese vehicles cost 20% to 30% more to drive home than do the comparable size and equipped domestic vehicles. Give any brand the proper preventive maintenance and they will easily go to 300K trouble free. The problem today is many seem to believe the manufacture has an obligation to fix their vehicles for as long as they own them. Hell I remember when new car warranties were 1,000 miles or thirty days. It took thirty years till warranties went up to 4,000 or ninety days, WOF
You are correct about the brake problem, it goes way back to the governments ban on using asbestos. Same problem with paint, government banned some paint ingredients. The government and the environuts did not allow time for the manufactures to develop and prove the alternative materials they had to use in place of the banned ingredients and the consumer and the manufactures paid the bills for the governments mistake.
mike hunt
Brad Clarke wrote:

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This is a serious question, not a troll: are you sure about that? I saw a new '05 Corolla (5-speed) that stickered for just barely over $14K. Is there a domestic equivalent that is 20-30% less? What is it?
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I find www.jdpower.com an interesting website. Click on the automotive section and see which brands are best in different categories. I own an 04 Toyota Sienna van and an 04 Tundra DC. When I compare the areas that are most important to me ( overall quality, and resale value ), I find that my Toyotas come out on the top of the list and Chevys are at the bottom of the list. Makes me happy that I finally made the right choice in what my family drives.
ex GM owner,
Chuck in Phoenix
">> a warranty. The only real difference is style and price.

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It is your money, spend it where you wish. I know I do, but after buying numerous Lexus V8's I bought a 2000 domestic luxury car in 1999. I have since owned several and they have proven to be just as reliable as my Lexus, but far less expensive to buy and maintain. As I said, from what we see in our business there is little difference among brands, except style and price. J D Powers does indeed list Toyota as having the least number of problems reported by owners at 1.1 per 100 vehicles but the worst Porsche, is only at 1.5. Hyundai is behind Toyota 1.2 problems per 100 vehicles hardly much of a difference. In my opinion, certainly not worth the premium price of a Toyota and their part costs. If you are going to base your choice of a vehicle on the opinions of others, found in surveys, why not believe the most important of all surveys of owners? That ultimate survey, the one where buyers make their choice and put down their money to buy those vehicles, is sales. The Camry is the number one selling car in the US. Apparently more buyers in the US buy the Camry, even though it is only assembled in the US of mostly imported parts, than any other car because they believe it is best car for their money. More buyers in the US, more than twice as many as buy the Camry, buy the Ford F150 because they believe it is best truck for their money and have for 28 years. GM is second in vehicle sales and Dodge is third. Each sell six or seven times as many F150's, Silverados and Rams as Toyota sells Tundra's. Not only do buyers buy Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks by the millions, they do it over and over again year after year. Surely they would not continue to go back and buy the trucks they do, rather than Toyotas, if they actually believed Tundra was a better truck.
mike hunt
Chuck wrote:

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I think you are missing the point.
Happy Holidays
Chuck in Phoenix

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