How GM can survive

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Jane wrote:>>In any event, I was addressing a specific comment, not intending to debate who has the hardest job.>>>>>>>>>
ok i understand your stating your point and not looking for an argument , ok ....but then Jane writes>>> Are you jealous or something?>>>>>>> well now... lets see what else you had to say ,,,>>>Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the job>>>>>>> no, not maybe..i'm sure i do more than you on any given day....even when your not working in pain.. and how much did it cost you to go to work today? this week? all of last year?...lunches and gas money at best...i have over a year's wages tied up in a big red tool box, and i NEED them every day....who pays for your tools?...who pays for you medical expenses, thats right you have benefits.and don't forget lots of $$$$$$$ i don't know.. it seems that all you were doing is bragging about the money you make at your mindless job...i would have ignored it if it wasn't for>>>>Are you jealous or something?<<<<
ya i guess i am jealous...i could be doing so much better imitating an automated robot...i guess you can't be replaced with a machine if they can't tell the two apart.. instead i spend my time repairing the poorly designed crap that rolls of the line...65 per hour, 520 per shift if your not looking for debate, keep the of the collar remarks over on the alt.proph/nos. site!.....................
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Debatable. ....even
I never bragged about the money. I did say that I have a degree, but chose my job for the $$, benefits, etc...of course! No one aspires to chase the line for the love of the work!
...i would have ignored it if it

Maybe that was uncalled-for (and I apologize), but maybe I found your tone a little snotty, too.

Don't forget, though...you have skills that are transferable. My biology degree was obtained in 1983...waaaay out of date! If I lose my job at GM (and things don't look great in Oshawa right now), I'll have to upgrade extensively to get a decent job anywhere else. I tend to envy those who have marketable skills. Money isn't everything!
..i guess you can't be replaced with a machine if they

Designed not by the lowly line worker, but by even more highly paid engineers.

Checking up on me? I must have touched a nerve!
Jane

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Jane<<<<<<<<<<<Debatable.<<<<...there you go again.. .<<<<<<<<<<No one aspires to chase the line for the love of the work!, >>> to be quite honest, the love of work is long gone for fix cars.....

I've been told i come across a little condescending ...its because i'm a crappy typer and have to be short and to the point or i'll be here all night....

Not a shot at line workers....free forum to bash the product, and the violators of over production, lack of quality control,substandard parts and in some cases over engineering... i know your acting out someone else's clueless agenda

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Fair enough. You also have a most unique (some would say irritating in that they are hard to follow) way of formatting your posts...

Nope! I have no agenda beyond hoping to get my last seven years in and retire...The only way that will happen is if people continue to buy the cars.

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I know this is kind of a bitch, but this has got to be the absolute worst example of quoted text I've ever seen on the net. Talk about hard to read/follow...
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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You got that right! Working on cars used to be fun. Now it's a major pain the the butt. Back in the day, you could raise the hood & see the engine. Now.....
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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David star wrote-You got that right! Working on cars used to be fun. Now it's a major pain the the butt. Back in the day, you could raise the hood & see the engine. Now.....
it's only going to get worst. if ever there was a time when I'd like to magically switch rolls with someone... every auto designer and brilliant engineer should be sentenced to repair the products they build before they hit the market..
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wrote:

I've thought that for a long time. many years ago, I had a 78 Captice estate wagon. The bulb for the temp. gage burned out & I decided to replace it. Felt around behind the IP & couldn't find any lamp sockets, so I pulled out the shop manual. "Remove layers of IP from the front until you get to the bulbs" !!! The bulb never did get replaced.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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And how can you be sure of this?

You can always go work for a major company.

The line workers don't design the cars.

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People are much more adaptive than machines. Robots are great for some assembly jobs, lousy for others.

Poor designs are not the fault of the line workers. They just put them together the way they're told with what they're told to use.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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What plant rotates jobs on the line? None I've heard of. Three line job examples...........................
1. Vehicle passes you with axles at chest level (assume 6ft tall). Take inflated front tire/wheel assembly off the supply line and put it on the front axle. Pull down the 5-socket air wrench hanging overhead, orient with lugs, and put all 5 lug nuts on at once. Reload wrench with 5 lug nuts at repeat for rear axle. Reload wrench for front of next car.
2. Chassis for rear wheel drive vehicles come by at knee level. Pick up cross-member (transmission support) by one end, hand other end across line to coworker. Put in place, drop in 2 bolts, start lock nuts on bottom until collar engages. Pull the steering idler arm onto mounting studs, put on lock washers & start nuts. Pull the double socket air wrench down, place on nuts & tighten nuts.
3. Engines come by with the tops of the valve covers at eye level. Take alternator from stock basket on floor and place on engine. Get mounting bolts from stock pans, put through mounting brackets, mount alternator, and start nuts on bolts.
All these are at a line speed of 65 per hour, 520 per 8 hour shift. You get a 12 minute break before lunch, and another after. Don't drink too much coffee - bathroom breaks are almost impossible to get.
Been there, did that, got the t-shirt.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Everyone is different. I don't think I'd last a day, let alone a lifetime career. Money is an incentive, but I'd be crazy long before the first paycheck. I'm glad others can do it.
Overall, we get a well built car that works very well.
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Don't drink too much coffee -

I started this food fight. Of course management is way overpaid. Wagoner should get only 3x what a senior worker should get. Bob Lutz deserves every penny. He may very well save the company. Say Solstice, image, interest, rebirth.
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Lutz has done precisely NOTHING so far. The Solstice is another example of GM goofiness: a good idea that makes it 90% of the way to production...and then the adults bail out and let a bunch of 12 year olds finish the design.
Compare the Miata to the Solstice. The Miata is an excellent small sports car that is actually useable. The Solstice is over-weight over-styled and with the worst excuse for a trunk that has ever claimed to be a trunk. The put a giant tumor in the middle of it! Forget about a bag or two of gold clubs.
And look at what Lutz did with the Australian GTO.
I had high hopes for the guy, but so far his tenure at GM is on par with the time he (former Marine aviator) landed that ex-Czech jet trainer he has...with the gear up.
I hate to say it, but GM needs the Renault guy who revived Nissan. Lutz and Wagoner cannot hack it.

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That may be your opinion but wanna bet the Solstice, and the Saturn Sky, will out sell ALL of the other small two seaters on the market in its first year? ;)
mike hunt

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Hey, at $20,000 entry for the Pontiac, it BETTER outsell anything else like it for the first year. A few years down the road, ask me the same type of question.
The Miata is a proven quantity. Its sales have legs. We'll see with the Solstice/Sky twins.
The thing with the trunk is not an opinion. It's reality. Go look inside one and then tell me if you didn't shake your head in disbelief. They cut themselves off from the market of guys who like to play golf and have the loose change for a summer toy. Dumb.
- nopcbs

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To get a car that will hold clubs for a foursome, one needs to buy a Ford 500 or a CV or their Mercury cousins LOL
mike hunt

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wrote:

I worked at GM for forty years. I wanted a car with rear wheel drive, a frame under it, and a large enough trunk to pack for a 2 week trip. GM no longer builds such an animal. So, in 04, I found an 02 Town Car for 22,900. It's the second Ford product I've owned - first was a 93 T-Bird - and the BEST car I've owned.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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I started with GM before moving to VW then Ford. I owned a couple of those RWD, four wheel independent suspension, V8 T-Birds and Cougars. They were great cars. Too bad they had to replace the Cougar with that Ford Probe reject in '99.
mike hunt

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You mean the Contour (nee Mondeo) based car? What's not to like about it, other than the fact that it was FWD? Another example of Ford putting out a world class car and letting it die in favor of inferior products, probably because they wanted to promote their US-designed models. Also remember the Capri? Merkur XR4Ti?
nate
Mike Hunter wrote:

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replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
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