Ian and GM quality

look at the transmission failures on ODYCLUB.COM but yet the Odyssey continues to get top quality praise. Statements like' I had three transmissions but my next van will be an Odyssey because they replaced them. My neighbor had his VW in six times in the first year but to listen to him there is nothing like a VW. It all stems from owners of American cars will complain about their problems. Owners of foreign cars will still give them high praise even though they have problems.

Uhm...I think the point is that the other manufacturer's appear (from your post) to stand behind the product better. You're right they all have problems. But when/if GM typically tells customers to go away and fix it yourself and Toyota gives out a fair amount of "goodwill" help, that leads to better "feelings" about the produce among the customer base.

The sad part is, this has been a known dynamic for decades.

I would agree with you...I'm not a particularly positive spokesman for the GM cause. But I really have no particular interest one way or the other, besides the fact that I make money off of working on GM vehicles. I'm a pragmatic type of person....I like working on GM vehicles because I've grown accustomed to way they do things, and I make good money repairing their vehicles. I might even buy one real soon, but I'll have a good extended warranty on it.

My main objective here is to share what little knowledge I have, in the hope that someone out there can save some money, either by doing the job themselves, or by being forewarned/armed with info when dealing with repair shops.

In the meantime, I jump in my 300 dollar shitbox K-car every morning and it gets me there and back with very little drama. And when it breaks, (which isn't often), it costs me next to nothing to repair.

The only "new" cars we've owned have been a Toyota and an Audi 5000. Both were excellent cars, but the Audi could have been major trouble. I had to keep a real sharp eye on it to make it last 12 years with very few repairs (but expensive when they happened). The Toyota was a real yawner....drove it for many years and replaced the clutch once. That's it, that's all.

Ian

And I can't thank you enough for that , sincerely, but, .

Just a bit more objectivity will make your post perfect ;-))

I think that tends to differ from dealer to dealer... we call our service manager Goodwill Bill, cause every car that comes in under 60k seems to get something fixed for free...

The techs aren't huge fans of it of course, but we are always in the top three regionally for CSI..

I saw an '85 Chrysler LeBaron Town and Country wagon at a small car lot: K car wagon with wallpaper, full array of Chrysler electronics--digital dash, trip computer, human voice alert, leather, power everything. 80K miles. Cream puff. The 2.2 purred quietly. $700. Would have made a hell of a shitbox/fetch/chuck wagon especially if I put a turbo in it (from a derelict Daytona, Lancer, Laser, Charger, Omni GLH). That 2.2 4 banger Chrysler is a great motor. Most were beat to hell and not maintained properly by the ignorant humanoids who owned them.

Same here, John. Our service manager is extremely liberal with the goodwill. Sometimes I hate it, but overall, it keeps our shop busy and the customers keep bringing their vehicles in on a regular basis.

Ian

What kind of objectivity are you looking for? Does it really matter? As long as you enjoy the product....that's what's important. Who cares what some guy on the internet says?

Ian

You got me with this one !!! Right on the nose !!!

Looks like I care more for the GM name than GM itself !!

have a good week to you all

Actually, what I've seen is quite the opposite. My '03 Cavalier left the lot with the alignment off. Didn't fully realize it till I was halfway home.

GM and the dealership could have easily claimed that I must've hit a curb or something on the way home and it wasn't their problem. In fact, I was prepared to pay for an alignment. Instead, they did it under warranty, and quite quickly. Runs like a champ and drives straight now.

Toyota, on the other hand, has been known for its engines which seem to be really good at turning perfectly good oil into sludge:

For over a year Toyota blamed the problem on customers who didn't change their oil on time, even when maintenance receipts showing that the schedule was followed were produced. Ultimately, Toyota caved in just a bit and is offering a "Special Policy Adjustment" to selected owners how bitch loudly enough... but only as a "courtesy" because, you know, Toyota insists they're still too stupid to do oil changes on time, receipts or no.

But I think this is an example that Japanese auto makers might not necessarily make better cars in all cases. The situation here might be more of a culture where automakers from Japan rest on their laurels, and blame all problems on poor maintenance or user stupidity, whether warranted or not.