Hmm, an interesting list, HLS, however like most Big Three-bashing articles,
it complains far too much about how Detroit kept making them thar SUV's.
Well, I have news for whomever wrote that article. Detroit was making the
exact product that was selling in the US, and they were doing it well.
Toyota and the others decided to get in on this market too, but usually with
limited success, and awful products. You can take the safety disaster
Toyota Tundra as an example. I blame the Big Three for a lot of things, but
they never once made anyone purchase that 9 MPG Suburban. They were simply
building what people wanted.
Then why did they lose all that market share?
That "What people wanted" BS is what has driven them bankrupt.
The biggest selling cars for years have been the
It was plain DUMB for the 3 to let that happen.
The bottom line doesn't lie.
Vic, the best selling automobile right now (and for the last 30+ years) is a
Ford truck. The second, is a Chevy truck. What has driven them bankrupt is
several bad decisions, and very unfair trade laws.
The trucks don't add up to much when you compare them to the total of
cars. But I never said producing trucks isn't in the plan.
The problem is all the dogs, including one-off SUV's.
My kid told me today the Cobalt is going away.
Why the hell can't GM concentrate on doing something well and
improving it every year?
See those Jap cars above? All trace back to the '80's, maybe earlier.
They kept the names because they weren't ashamed of the cars.
Except for the Vette name and maybe the Century and Regal, GM can't
seem to keep a model going for a single decade. I'm still pissed
they dropped the Celebrity.
I'm not saying SUV's are absolutley necessary, but if you look at the sales
data, they used to be incredible sellers. Yes, I will totally agree that
they are aweful on gas, most people don't use them for off-roading, and most
don't need them, but I still like them. I used to have a Chevy Tahoe, and
man when you drove down the roan in that thing, you felt safe and
comfortable at the same time. However, my only point was too many people
say GM is so horrible for building the SUV's, when the fact is people wanted
them, and were buying them in droves.
Yeah, the Cobalt is turning into the Chevy Cruze (which is based on the
Delta II platform, and is already available in Europe, IIRC). IIRC, it is a
cost cutting measure. Instead of having the Chevy Cobalt, and Daewoo
Lacetti, they will just have the Chevy Cruze.
I can agree with you to a point, but GM did keep many many model names far
longer then the Jap's have. The Pontiac Bonneville was produced from 1957 -
2005, the Pontiac Grand Prix from 1962 - 2008, the Grand Am and Cutlass
started in the 70's, etc. I will though agree that sometimes changing the
names is a foolish idea (Bonneville to G8, Grand Am to G6, etc). As for the
Celebrity, I never drove the Chevy, but I have driven many Pontiac 6000's,
and they were always good cars. We had some problems, but they all lasted
well over 300,000.
My Celebrity was a terrific car, and I would have bought a new one
when mine rusted out.
Guess what? Not available. Even its successor, the inferior Lumina,
had been phased out.
Stupid, stupid, stupid, and I still don't think GM gets it.
The last time they held a car sales lead was the Celebrity, maybe '85.
They still held the lead by a good margin with the
Celebrity/6000/Ciera/Century combo until guess what?
They discontinued them.
Whoever made that decision should be strung up.
Reminds me of that guy who came out with the "New Coke."
Just lame. Brain dead. Sales is about loyalty.
Best thing they can do now is drop Pontiac as they did with Olds.
They have proven they can't make the old scheme work.
I saw the new CEO Henderson on Meet the Press this morning.
He didn't mention one model car.
He's a car guy?
I saw a piece on CNN where they interviewed a Ford dealer near me,
and he said they can't get enough the Fusion hybrids to sell, they're
going so fast. So the interviewer looks at the sticker and it says
the car is made in Mexico and Japan. Figures.
I'd buy a U.S. made Jap car first.
The globalists have screwed America royally, and the stuff hasn't hit
the fan blades yet.
You can't sell cars to people that don't have decent jobs.
Henry Ford laid that out clearly.
I don't see anything that can deny it.
But, the Lumina wouldn't have been a better vehicle if it were called the
Celebrity. I actually think the Lumina's are quite good.
I have to highly disagree there. I have liked every Pontiac I have owned.
Yes, usually it is minor details that make the Pontiac different from the
Chevy (IE, Pontiac Sunfire, Chevy Cavalier), but I always prefer the
Pontiac. It's usually more sporty, and looks better IMHO. I also love the
"Pontiac Glow". I think if any department has to go (out of the biggies,
IE: Chevy, Pontiac, Cadillac, Buick), it should be Buick. Make the Chevy's
the lowest-cost vehicles, Pontiac the sporty versions, and the Caddy's the
high end versions.
I don't know much about the guy yet, but I'm learning.
I totally agree that auto makers need to change the places they build
auto's. The Domestic's should build only in North America, and the Foreign
in there home country.
All you're interested in is raising the price of vehicles for domestic (read
our own citizens) users. You could care two hoots about your fellow
citizens. As long as it serves your interests everything is fine. But that
presents a problem because consumers here far out number you and the
manufacturers in these two countries. The consumer is always right in the
long run. You can petition the politicians but they must also pay attention
to other voters. It's a slow and cumbersome process. Market forces in place
over the years would have prevented this calamity.
But no leave it to politicians and special interest groups.
Another article by some 30 year old who never drove a Pinto. Total BS.
If he would bother to check the actual facts instead of repeat some
acusations from a poorly written exposes from the late 70's he would
discover that Pintos were not more dangerous that contemporary cars
and that they sold well for many years. My family owned two of them.
Great cars for the money and much safer than imports fromt he same
era. I was especially outraged by the line that implied Corollas from
the 70's were "high tech." What an absolute piece of misinformation
that is. Corollas from the earl y70's were about as advanced as a
Model T and rode about as well to (but with a lot less interior room).
And does anyone rember a 1970 Civic? Can you say "deathtrap." I wonder
what this guy was smoking when he wrote that article. Admittedly by
1980 Pinto's were obsolete, but that doesn't mean they were not good
cars in 1970.
I dont know, personally. When they put lipstick on a Pinto and called it a
I thought they should have fried on the spot.
Brother had one, never killed him, but periodically had some sort of fuel
I dont think you could fault the basic motor. GM has never, in my memory,
four cylinder that was worth a damn.
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.