Interesting perspective on the Big Three

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/923/10-Cars-That-Sank-Detroit

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HLS wrote:

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/923/10-Cars-That-Sank-Detroit

Failing to read the tea leaves correctly has a high price.
--
Civis Romanus Sum

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http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/923/10-Cars-That-Sank-Detroit
Hmm, an interesting list, HLS, however like most Big Three-bashing articles, it complains far too much about how Detroit kept making them thar SUV's. Well, I have news for whomever wrote that article. Detroit was making the exact product that was selling in the US, and they were doing it well. Toyota and the others decided to get in on this market too, but usually with limited success, and awful products. You can take the safety disaster Toyota Tundra as an example. I blame the Big Three for a lot of things, but they never once made anyone purchase that 9 MPG Suburban. They were simply building what people wanted.
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On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 17:23:18 -0400, "80Knight"

Then why did they lose all that market share? That "What people wanted" BS is what has driven them bankrupt. The biggest selling cars for years have been the Accord/Camry/Civic/Corolla. It was plain DUMB for the 3 to let that happen. The bottom line doesn't lie.
--Vic
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Vic, the best selling automobile right now (and for the last 30+ years) is a Ford truck. The second, is a Chevy truck. What has driven them bankrupt is several bad decisions, and very unfair trade laws.
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On Sat, 4 Apr 2009 22:41:53 -0400, "80Knight"

The trucks don't add up to much when you compare them to the total of cars. But I never said producing trucks isn't in the plan. The problem is all the dogs, including one-off SUV's. My kid told me today the Cobalt is going away. Why the hell can't GM concentrate on doing something well and improving it every year? See those Jap cars above? All trace back to the '80's, maybe earlier. They kept the names because they weren't ashamed of the cars. Except for the Vette name and maybe the Century and Regal, GM can't seem to keep a model going for a single decade. I'm still pissed they dropped the Celebrity.
--Vic
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wrote:

I'm not saying SUV's are absolutley necessary, but if you look at the sales data, they used to be incredible sellers. Yes, I will totally agree that they are aweful on gas, most people don't use them for off-roading, and most don't need them, but I still like them. I used to have a Chevy Tahoe, and man when you drove down the roan in that thing, you felt safe and comfortable at the same time. However, my only point was too many people say GM is so horrible for building the SUV's, when the fact is people wanted them, and were buying them in droves.

Yeah, the Cobalt is turning into the Chevy Cruze (which is based on the Delta II platform, and is already available in Europe, IIRC). IIRC, it is a cost cutting measure. Instead of having the Chevy Cobalt, and Daewoo Lacetti, they will just have the Chevy Cruze.

I can agree with you to a point, but GM did keep many many model names far longer then the Jap's have. The Pontiac Bonneville was produced from 1957 - 2005, the Pontiac Grand Prix from 1962 - 2008, the Grand Am and Cutlass started in the 70's, etc. I will though agree that sometimes changing the names is a foolish idea (Bonneville to G8, Grand Am to G6, etc). As for the Celebrity, I never drove the Chevy, but I have driven many Pontiac 6000's, and they were always good cars. We had some problems, but they all lasted well over 300,000.
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On Sun, 5 Apr 2009 00:44:28 -0400, "80Knight"

My Celebrity was a terrific car, and I would have bought a new one when mine rusted out. Guess what? Not available. Even its successor, the inferior Lumina, had been phased out. Stupid, stupid, stupid, and I still don't think GM gets it. The last time they held a car sales lead was the Celebrity, maybe '85. They still held the lead by a good margin with the Celebrity/6000/Ciera/Century combo until guess what? They discontinued them. Whoever made that decision should be strung up. Reminds me of that guy who came out with the "New Coke." Just lame. Brain dead. Sales is about loyalty. Best thing they can do now is drop Pontiac as they did with Olds. They have proven they can't make the old scheme work. I saw the new CEO Henderson on Meet the Press this morning. He didn't mention one model car. WTF? He's a car guy? I saw a piece on CNN where they interviewed a Ford dealer near me, and he said they can't get enough the Fusion hybrids to sell, they're going so fast. So the interviewer looks at the sticker and it says the car is made in Mexico and Japan. Figures. I'd buy a U.S. made Jap car first. The globalists have screwed America royally, and the stuff hasn't hit the fan blades yet. You can't sell cars to people that don't have decent jobs. Henry Ford laid that out clearly. I don't see anything that can deny it.
--Vic
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wrote:

But, the Lumina wouldn't have been a better vehicle if it were called the Celebrity. I actually think the Lumina's are quite good.

I have to highly disagree there. I have liked every Pontiac I have owned. Yes, usually it is minor details that make the Pontiac different from the Chevy (IE, Pontiac Sunfire, Chevy Cavalier), but I always prefer the Pontiac. It's usually more sporty, and looks better IMHO. I also love the "Pontiac Glow". I think if any department has to go (out of the biggies, IE: Chevy, Pontiac, Cadillac, Buick), it should be Buick. Make the Chevy's the lowest-cost vehicles, Pontiac the sporty versions, and the Caddy's the high end versions.

I don't know much about the guy yet, but I'm learning.

I totally agree that auto makers need to change the places they build auto's. The Domestic's should build only in North America, and the Foreign in there home country.

A lot needs to be changed, that is very true.
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news:QvqdnQDgq5_IyETUnZ2dnUVZ_h-

No offense, but I think that is the basic definition of foreign and domestic, as seen from the USAmerican's perspective.
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wrote in message

My bad HLS. What I meant is Toyota should build in Japan, and only Japan, and GM/Ford should build in North America, and only North America. None of this "Built in Mexico" shit.
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wrote:

All you're interested in is raising the price of vehicles for domestic (read our own citizens) users. You could care two hoots about your fellow citizens. As long as it serves your interests everything is fine. But that presents a problem because consumers here far out number you and the manufacturers in these two countries. The consumer is always right in the long run. You can petition the politicians but they must also pay attention to other voters. It's a slow and cumbersome process. Market forces in place over the years would have prevented this calamity.
But no leave it to politicians and special interest groups.
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I didnt write the article, Knight...
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wrote in message They were

I realize that, and I meant no offence towards you.
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http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/923/10-Cars-That-Sank-Detroit
Another article by some 30 year old who never drove a Pinto. Total BS. If he would bother to check the actual facts instead of repeat some acusations from a poorly written exposes from the late 70's he would discover that Pintos were not more dangerous that contemporary cars and that they sold well for many years. My family owned two of them. Great cars for the money and much safer than imports fromt he same era. I was especially outraged by the line that implied Corollas from the 70's were "high tech." What an absolute piece of misinformation that is. Corollas from the earl y70's were about as advanced as a Model T and rode about as well to (but with a lot less interior room). And does anyone rember a 1970 Civic? Can you say "deathtrap." I wonder what this guy was smoking when he wrote that article. Admittedly by 1980 Pinto's were obsolete, but that doesn't mean they were not good cars in 1970.
Ed
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What an absolute piece of misinformation

I dont know, personally. When they put lipstick on a Pinto and called it a Mustang, I thought they should have fried on the spot.
Brother had one, never killed him, but periodically had some sort of fuel system breakdown.
I dont think you could fault the basic motor. GM has never, in my memory, made a four cylinder that was worth a damn.
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T
a
I take it that you're a rather young man or at the very least wholly unaware of the legendary Iron Duke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Iron_Duke_engine
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