Is quality control still bad at GM?

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If so, why?

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156,000 miles on a 90 C-1500 still with all original gaskets 285,000 on a 95 Astro van still with all original gaskets
: If so, why? : :
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According to latest JDpower long term reliability tests, GM is on top of all American manufacturers, and right there with Honda (but below Toyota and Lexus). So I would say GM is on the right path. I bought a Cadillac CTS and it has been trouble free for the 8 months that I owned it.
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Out of the 44 cars that I have owned since 1976, 80% of them being GM's, I can't say anything bad about them... There were a couple of them that were duds, but for the most part trouble free and fun to own and drive.
Joliet Jake Blues
Were's the Caddy?? The WHAT? The Cadillac we used to own the BLUES MOBILE??? I traded it for a microphone, A microphone?? Ok, I can see that.....
Jake and Elwood Blues.......
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James C. Reeves ranted:

GM treats most of its customers nicely. Unfortunately, you have to expect them to try to ignore one customer who rants endlessly and simply never gets the message.
---Bob Gross---
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I got the message GM sends. It's "I've got your money, now go away".
Tell me what I've asked for that is not a relatively common request, based on a generally accepted industry standard or is universally available elsewhere from GMs competitors? Also, tell me why a no cost BCM programming change (according to the GM service bulletin from August 2000 I read) cannot be accomplished at the _owners_ request to satisfy said request. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Volvo (others probably as well) will do as the customer requests in this area...no problem! The request IS common, reasonable and incredibly simple (for GMs competitors at least). It's GM that isn't getting the message that some customers want the choice and competitors are providing the choice (within what is legal, of course, which this is). GM can also easily deliver the option, but simply won't (for what ever reason is anybody's guess). You say that is acceptable? I say it certainly is not. We disagree...fine. This isn't even good business. If it weren't for customers willing to take the time to invest in what they believe is a good company otherwise making decent cars, many would still never get it. Will GM listen? I hope so!! Or it's another percent drop in market share in 2004.
| James C. Reeves ranted: | >I think GM, for the most part, makes a reasonably fine car. But their | >attitude (at the corporate level) toward the customer is the worst I've ever | >encountered. Good product or not, a customer wants to be treated well once | >they've purchased the product...or they will go where they are treated well. | >It's all part of the overall package GM doesn't quite get yet. | | GM treats most of its customers nicely. Unfortunately, you have to expect them | to try to ignore one customer who rants endlessly and simply never gets the | message. | | ---Bob Gross---
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James, you just proved my point about the rant.
---Bob Gross---
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snipped-for-privacy@cs.com (Robertwgross) wrote in

Anybody who blames customer rants for stonewalling and bad treatment from major car manufacturers must be living underground and have a sightseeing dog guiding them.
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If what you wanted was not wanted by the other 99.9999999% of customers, "In tennis speak . . . " it's game, set and match GM!

James, if it's so important to you, buy from another manufacturer and get on with your life. Life is too short to spend your time bitching and whining. Go to another NewsGroup whose products you like. It's not that complex an issue.

hurt your feelings by saying that what you want isn't wanted by the vast majority of customers. Your dealer, who was initially very supportive, is probably a good case in point. He probably thought that by empathizing with you that he'd win you over. When that didn't work, he changed his tune. It's like when your wife or girlfriend buys a new dress that you don't like. Sometimes it's easier to say: "Hey baby, that is one sweet dress!" than to say: "How did you get that away from the hooker?" But if she keeps wearing it, you may end up taking it back to the hooker yourself! ;-)
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automobiles manufactured recently, after 100 years of doing so without any problems, would indicate that people who defend and make excuses for such outrageous design, are most likely the idiots who need to take a long look in the mirror.
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might just indicate that people are getting dumber, lazier or don't want to have to think. They want technology to "think" for them. The fact that many people cannot figure out how to operate headlights might just indicate that they either cannot read or have just not opened the Owners' Manual. That's the operating manual that's found in the "glove box". You know - that compartment on the dashboard. Duh!
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Duh to you too bubba, I have worked in the electronics field for forty years and have seen my share of truly bozo engineering but the automotive industry has risen to the top with the idea of tying everything into the car radio. I would have liked to have been there when the pitch was made that the car radio was going to be the center of a data bus which everything must go through because we all know a radio is the center of all things. Of course this radio will eventually cost 1000 dollars and nothing will work on your car without it. Technology can be great asset to society or used to monopolize and bilk people endlessly as the automotive industry has chosen to do. There's nothing worse than someone who can program his VCR, which many people can't unfortunately, and draw the conclusion than he is really smart and is a technology genius based on this simple simon conclusion. The fact that fools line up to support foolish things or have blind allegiance to brands shows just how foolish people can be.
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Spoken like a slack-jawed yocal from the Ozarks!

That and a buck will buy you a cup of coffee!

Sounds like someone is a bit frustrated with his inability to make a difference in the world of electronics. Tango, what was your contribution to the industry? If you had come up with some of these very same ideas which you admonish, you would have retired a rich man after 5 years in the industry.

Tango, you are an obvious case-in-point of which you speak!

Once again, you and James C. Reeves have proven that fools seldom differ. If you both spend much more time in this GM bashing thread, you may win the Award for Most Frequent Trollers in a NewsGroup that Really Doesn't Care about Your Opinion Because You're In The Wrong News Group! ;-)
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| The fact that many people cannot figure out how to operate headlights on | automobiles manufactured recently, after 100 years of doing so without any | problems, would indicate that people who defend and make excuses for such | outrageous design, are most likely the idiots who need to take a long look | in the mirror.
According to Sting Ray, you and I are pretty much it when it comes to this opinion. ;-) Part of the 0.000000001% of the buying public.
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you and Tango, You and Tango "are pretty much it when it comes to this opinion. ;-) Part of the 0.000000001% of the buying public." Thanks for proving my point. Now run along to a NewsGroup that wants to hear your drone. Try alt.bores.dull
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much time on your attached post from last Thursday. Rather than spend any of the past four days on the web, I chose to take a four-day weekend and drive my '67 Sting Ray and my new Z06. My mid-year is marvellous to drive because of its lack of technology, while my Z06 is a technological marvel. But I love them both I would highly recommend that you too get a hobby and stop taking yourself so bloody seriously. Move on James. There are more important issues in life. Make love to your wife or girlfriend or both! It's much more enjoyable than the torment you seem to be putting yourself through. Granted, you pulled a number of your percentage figures out of the air with your guestimates, but nonetheless, you seemed to incorporate a lot of time consuming research into your response. And for what James? For something that is too trivial a concern to the vast majority of the readers in this NewsGroup. The vast majority of readers in this NG, I'd estimate 99.9999999%, are here because they like one or more GM products. Please stop tormenting us with your petty gripes. While we may have cared about your opinion when first stated, we no longer want to hear it over and over and over again, ad nauseum. We are sorry that you are bitter that GM doesn't want to hear about your opinions and ideas, but maybe, just maybe, you've worn out your welcome with GM as well. Use your energy on something important. Drive a car. Plant a flower. Sponsor a foster child. Be happy!
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James, GM is not unlike many other large companies who sometimes lose touch with their customers. Marketshare only tells part of the story because marketshare swings both ways over time. Results over time is the true test. As you are aware, segment marketshare can be impacted significantly by a hot, inexpensive new product from either a new or established competitor. Tiburon comes to mind, having negatively impacted the Sunfire and Cavalier lines. So GM has to meet the challenge or lose marketshare. Marketshare changes every year for the major companies, sometimes up and sometimes down. GM has been high overall in marketshare for many years, so it could be argued that they only have one way to go. The influx of inexpensive Korean imports could be a temporary phenomenon or it could be permanent. Only time will tell. GM didn't get where it is by not listening to its customers and by not watching changing markets.

The '67 Goat was always one of my favorites, but I couldn't afford the insurance back then! *lol* Did yours have the 389? My Z06 is an '03. It's a fun car in its own way, but the '67 is my favourite to drive around town or even a few hundred miles to a good car show, such as Super Chevy. Performance-wise the '67 can't touch the Z06 though.

Ha, Ha! Yep, I could tell!

Sounds like you and the wife had a great trip! You covered two of my favourite states.

I'd be willing to bet that GM is listening. Hell, how do you know that I'm not Bob Lutz? The auto industry is dynamic and ever changing. I'd be willing to bet that GM will outlive us both.

Okay, 99.999999%! Whoever said that I'm not flexible?

Geez, we may be on the same wavelength after all! Scary, isn't it?
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[SNIP] | > | > Nice wheels! Loved my '67 GTO when I had it (back in the early '70s). | > Drove that puppy for 160,000+ miles! I also enjoyed learning to drive in | my | > mother's '69 Impala Custom Coupe too (350 4bbl). What year is your Z06? | | The '67 Goat was always one of my favorites, but I couldn't afford the | insurance back then! *lol* Did yours have the 389? My Z06 is an '03. It's a | fun car in its own way, but the '67 is my favourite to drive around town or | even a few hundred miles to a good car show, such as Super Chevy. | Performance-wise the '67 can't touch the Z06 though. | >
The GTO is one of my favorites too. My dad had a yellow '65 Malibu SS 327 that wasn't bad either. My "Goat" was red, had the 389 all stock with the Rochester Quadrajet carb. An option was the three deuce carbs that year, but didn't want the constant tuning problems with those. The engine compression tested ~150 on all cylinders (I think close to factory spec, actually) at 140,000 miles...amazing too, I drove it pretty hard! It had the Hurst "duel-gate" auto tranny, the 60's version of today's "auto stick" (is a good comparison). But it had such a low rear end that it would redline at around 100MPH...wish it had overdrive to finish those quarter-mile drag races without having to pull up!!! :-) I can't remember my quarter times but it would hit 60 in just over 6 seconds and the needle just kept climbing from there...if I could keep those ole bias-ply tires from breaking loose! Wasn't worth a damn on rain or snow covered streets though....the engine just had too much torque to keep the wheels from spinning when starting from a stop. I don't remember what my insurance was...but I don't think it was too bad. It did suck a lot of gas though. Ah, the great old times...fast cars, hot girls and cold beer! ;-)
Funny story. In 1960 my dad and his dad (my grandfather) both bought 1960 Impala station wagons. My dad bought the 4bbl V8 engine. But my granddad got the biggest-baddest V8 they made then with the three deuce carbs. I can still see the look on some of the filling station attendants face when they popped the hood to check the oil on my grandfather's station wagon to see that power plant under there. "In a station wagon?" they would question! My granddad surprised many contenders in that puppy! Quite a funny memory! Ah, to get a car built the way you wanted it!!! A lost art, it seems.
| I'd be willing to bet that GM is listening. Hell, how do you | know that I'm not Bob Lutz?
Okay, why have you not answered my letters? ;-)
| The auto industry is dynamic and ever changing. | I'd be willing to bet that GM will outlive us both.
Not sure I'd make that bet at the moment. Five years ago I'd have bet Oldsmobile would be around forever too.
| Geez, we may be on the same wavelength after all! Scary, isn't it?
Na, I knew we were. I just wasn't doing a good job communicating, apparently.
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It's funny you mention the 3 deuce option. I swear that there are far more "original" 3 deuce GTO's for sale today, than were actually made! Methinks a few vendors are telling fibs!

A lot of the GTO's ran 411's which were great street racers, but weren't great quarter milers or highway cars for the reason you cited. It would be fun to take one of the the early GTO's and drop a 5 or 6 speed into it. Today's comparable size radials aren't much better than those old bias plys. . My '67 still spins them like they were doughnuts! But at least the radial tires don't permanently flat-spot on me like my old bias plys did.

You got the order just about right too!

In 1960 the biggest baddest engine was a 348 c.i. with 335 horsepower. It had the 3 deuce option. In 1961, the famous 409 c.i. engine was introduced. Here's a link to a pic of a 1960 Impala in an interesting website. Check out the whole website. It's great.
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/chevrolet-impala/chevrolet-impala-history-1.shtml

I just did! Ha, ha!

GM is a different story though. The Feds would never let it go down because too many jobs are at stake. They'd resurrect Lee Iacocca! Ha, Ha! Remember, they wouldn't let Chrylser go down either.

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| James, I think your problem may be that GM doesn't want you as a | customer. I watched a friend purposely chase away a new customer, with | an outrageously high price, because he didn't want to deal with the guy. | As he told me "that type of person is bad for business because they are | never satisified and are always complaining loudly." I never have | trouble at the dealer but then I don't ask them to do the impossible. | You have to know HOW to complain to get the results you want. | | ****************************************** | I would rather be exposed to the inconveninces attending too much | liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. | ~ Thomas Jefferson ~ |
I've gotten a fair amount of out-of-warrantee goodwill help in the past from other manufacturers. My request is reasonable and rational and no cost.
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