Is quality control still bad at GM?

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156,000 miles on a 90 C-1500 still with all original gaskets 285,000 on a 95 Astro van still with all original gaskets
Reply to
Im Right

According to latest JDpower long term reliability tests, GM is on top of all American manufacturers, and right there with Honda (but below Toyota and Lexus). So I would say GM is on the right path. I bought a Cadillac CTS and it has been trouble free for the 8 months that I owned it.

Reply to
Dan J.S.

Out of the 44 cars that I have owned since 1976, 80% of them being GM's, I can't say anything bad about them... There were a couple of them that were duds, but for the most part trouble free and fun to own and drive.

Joliet Jake Blues

Were's the Caddy?? The WHAT? The Cadillac we used to own the BLUES MOBILE??? I traded it for a microphone, A microphone?? Ok, I can see that.....

Jake and Elwood Blues.......

Reply to
M Hayes529

James C. Reeves ranted:

GM treats most of its customers nicely. Unfortunately, you have to expect them to try to ignore one customer who rants endlessly and simply never gets the message.

---Bob Gross---

Reply to
Robertwgross

I got the message GM sends. It's "I've got your money, now go away".

Tell me what I've asked for that is not a relatively common request, based on a generally accepted industry standard or is universally available elsewhere from GMs competitors? Also, tell me why a no cost BCM programming change (according to the GM service bulletin from August 2000 I read) cannot be accomplished at the _owners_ request to satisfy said request. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Volvo (others probably as well) will do as the customer requests in this area...no problem! The request IS common, reasonable and incredibly simple (for GMs competitors at least). It's GM that isn't getting the message that some customers want the choice and competitors are providing the choice (within what is legal, of course, which this is). GM can also easily deliver the option, but simply won't (for what ever reason is anybody's guess). You say that is acceptable? I say it certainly is not. We disagree...fine. This isn't even good business. If it weren't for customers willing to take the time to invest in what they believe is a good company otherwise making decent cars, many would still never get it. Will GM listen? I hope so!! Or it's another percent drop in market share in

2004.
Reply to
James C. Reeves

James, you just proved my point about the rant.

---Bob Gross---

Reply to
Robertwgross

snipped-for-privacy@cs.com (Robertwgross) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m07.news.cs.com:

Anybody who blames customer rants for stonewalling and bad treatment from major car manufacturers must be living underground and have a sightseeing dog guiding them.

Reply to
tango

I've gotten a fair amount of out-of-warrantee goodwill help in the past from other manufacturers. My request is reasonable and rational and no cost.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

James, in contrast to you, a self-professed challenging customer, I prefer to be a satisfied customer. In contrast to you, I was able to study the lighting control system in my new GM car until I understood it. Then I kept my damned hands off of it since it works right. However, if you prefer to rant to the top at GM, then that is fine. If I were at the top of GM, I would certainly ignore your attitude also.

In the past, when I had some difficult support problem with some auto, I started with the dealer, then moved up to the zone manager, each time with a polite and well-documented letter. But I got results.

I'll let you get back to your rant now.

---Bob Gross---

Reply to
Robertwgross

Just out of curiousity....what is your opinion of GM's Linden, NJ plant?

Reply to
Tim

| James, in contrast to you, a self-professed challenging | customer, I prefer to be a satisfied customer.

Don't we all.... A noble goal. :-)

| In contrast to you, I was able to study the lighting | control system in my new GM car until I understood | it. Then I kept my damned hands off of it since it | works right.

I'm glad it works for you. I don't have an issue with that. However, If it's generally so easily understood, how come several people in the "HELP!

2001 Impala Headlights" thread from 7/26 all had _different_ (and mostly wrong) advice to the original posters issue...hmmm!? Damned awful lot of confused people if you ask me! And note how the original poster had to solve his problem. Why? GM's idiotic control design! Note, in the end, how many other people think it's idiotic too.

Seriously though. I haven't any issue providing the "Auto" switch position that you like and that makes you "happy". But like Ford and Chrysler, there should also be a "Off" position for those customers that want that type of control instead. GM CAN do that..it isn't a unreasonable expectation (in fact it's a standard expectation and standard industry practice)

| However, if you prefer to rant to the top | at GM, then that is fine. If I were at the top of GM, | I would certainly ignore your attitude also.

And continually eroding GM market share quarter after quarter and year after year is the proof in the pudding that that is, and will always be, the _wrong_ answer. And erosion continues even with overly generous incentive programs! This country needs GM to get back in the game and find out what the wide breadth of the customer base wants and just answer to them (that's where the money and the future comes from). It's a easy elementary concept, really!

| In the past, when I had some difficult support problem | with some auto, I started with the dealer, then moved | up to the zone manager, each time with a | polite and well-documented letter. But I got results.

Yes, my experiencs also in the past. However, regarding dealing with GM though...been there..done that. I followed the same trail as you described...started with the dealer, etc. all the way with letters to Bob Lutz (so far). All levels basically said things like... "nothing we can do (lie)"..."the design doesn't allow what you want (lie)"..."it's the law (lie)"..."we will no longer accept email from you on this subject (true, they didn't, abd wouldn't call back either)"...etc. Perhaps it was the blatent lies they tole me that really did it for me!! Actually, come to think of it, all levels but Lutz responded, who didn't resond at all.

I also went through the BBB Autoline (at Chevrolet's suggestion which they knew was a wild goose chase) and The States Attorney Consumer Affairs Office after that failed...GM refused to "arbritrate". Consumer Affairs suggested getting a lawyer and going to court under the premise that under the 2002 edition of the Maryland Vehicle Law section TR 22-201.1, the law applies specifically to the _owners_ responsibility and control of the lights and GM's implementation _may_ inappropriately interfere with required said control (and the owners "reasonable" ability to adhere to certain provisions when lighting is required and not required). They felt that the courts should look at the issue if I was willing to persue. Believe it or not, I'm not the suing type..never have been and I won't take it there.

| | I'll let you get back to your rant now. |

Okay, thanks. ;-)

Reply to
James C. Reeves

I'm a car guy, I've only tried to know a little about the vehicles I bought or may buy in the future. I have no clue about truck plants.

Reply to
Neo

If what you wanted was not wanted by the other 99.9999999% of customers, "In tennis speak . . . " it's game, set and match GM!

proprietary

James, if it's so important to you, buy from another manufacturer and get on with your life. Life is too short to spend your time bitching and whining. Go to another NewsGroup whose products you like. It's not that complex an issue.

James, some people just find it difficult to be honest. They don't want to hurt your feelings by saying that what you want isn't wanted by the vast majority of customers. Your dealer, who was initially very supportive, is probably a good case in point. He probably thought that by empathizing with you that he'd win you over. When that didn't work, he changed his tune. It's like when your wife or girlfriend buys a new dress that you don't like. Sometimes it's easier to say: "Hey baby, that is one sweet dress!" than to say: "How did you get that away from the hooker?" But if she keeps wearing it, you may end up taking it back to the hooker yourself! ;-)

Reply to
Sting Ray

"Sting Ray" wrote in news:MAhYa.117736$ snipped-for-privacy@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:

The fact that many people cannot figure out how to operate headlights on automobiles manufactured recently, after 100 years of doing so without any problems, would indicate that people who defend and make excuses for such outrageous design, are most likely the idiots who need to take a long look in the mirror.

Reply to
tango

might just indicate that people are getting dumber, lazier or don't want to have to think. They want technology to "think" for them. The fact that many people cannot figure out how to operate headlights might just indicate that they either cannot read or have just not opened the Owners' Manual. That's the operating manual that's found in the "glove box". You know - that compartment on the dashboard. Duh!

Reply to
Sting Ray

According to Sting Ray, you and I are pretty much it when it comes to this opinion. ;-) Part of the 0.000000001% of the buying public.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

"Sting Ray" wrote in news:UNtYa.116869$ snipped-for-privacy@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:

Duh to you too bubba, I have worked in the electronics field for forty years and have seen my share of truly bozo engineering but the automotive industry has risen to the top with the idea of tying everything into the car radio. I would have liked to have been there when the pitch was made that the car radio was going to be the center of a data bus which everything must go through because we all know a radio is the center of all things. Of course this radio will eventually cost 1000 dollars and nothing will work on your car without it. Technology can be great asset to society or used to monopolize and bilk people endlessly as the automotive industry has chosen to do. There's nothing worse than someone who can program his VCR, which many people can't unfortunately, and draw the conclusion than he is really smart and is a technology genius based on this simple simon conclusion. The fact that fools line up to support foolish things or have blind allegiance to brands shows just how foolish people can be.

Reply to
tango

Spoken like a slack-jawed yocal from the Ozarks!

That and a buck will buy you a cup of coffee!

Sounds like someone is a bit frustrated with his inability to make a difference in the world of electronics. Tango, what was your contribution to the industry? If you had come up with some of these very same ideas which you admonish, you would have retired a rich man after 5 years in the industry.

Tango, you are an obvious case-in-point of which you speak!

Once again, you and James C. Reeves have proven that fools seldom differ. If you both spend much more time in this GM bashing thread, you may win the Award for Most Frequent Trollers in a NewsGroup that Really Doesn't Care about Your Opinion Because You're In The Wrong News Group! ;-)

Reply to
Sting Ray

James, as you can see by the absence of any posted support whatsoever for you and Tango, You and Tango "are pretty much it when it comes to this opinion. ;-) Part of the 0.000000001% of the buying public." Thanks for proving my point. Now run along to a NewsGroup that wants to hear your drone. Try alt.bores.dull

Reply to
Sting Ray

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