Is the Hummer "greener" than the Prius?

Hidden cost of driving a Prius

Totaling all the energy expended, from design to junkyard, a Hummer

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may be a better bargain. Toyota's Prius
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[is] a compact hybrid that's beloved by ardent environmentalists and that fetches premium prices because it gets nearly 50 miles-per-gallon in combined highway/city driving. Yet, new data have emerged that show the Prius may not be quite as eco- friendly as first assumed - if you pencil in the environmental negatives of producing it in the first place... ========== More:
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Reply to
R.Hemmu
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The article makes some valid points, although I do question the Prius' expected life of 100,000 miles vs. 300,000 for the Hummer. The hoopla surrounding the Prius and other hybrids, which IMHO trade/transfer gasoline consumption for resources used to make and eventually dispose of the batteries (and not very well at that) is made mostly by the uninformed who do not understand the big picture. I would much rather see the manufacturers put their energies into higher efficiency diesel and/or gasoline engines, and see measures to discourage the public from requiring 4,000 pound cars.

Hummer

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be a better bargain.>

Reply to
Mark

"R.Hemmu" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@pseudo.borked.net...

See

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This is a bunch of clap trap. They are basing the numbers on the Prius only lasting 100,000 miles while the SUV was supposed to last almost

300,000 miles. Find me a fair analysis and I'll pay attention. From the article:

"The Prius registered an energy-cost average of $3.25 per mile driven over its expected life span of 100,000 miles. Ironically, a Hummer, the brooding giant that has become the bête noir of the green movement, did much better, with an energy-cost average of $1.95 over its expected life span of 300,000 miles. And its crash protection makes it far safer than the tiny Prius."

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

I don't think any of us know who is right in this case, but I think that it is actually a valid point - the Prius is new technology, while the Hummer is old, proven tech. Until hard numbers are available, I would assume that it would be a true statement that a Hummer will last longer in normal service than a Prius.

Of course, what everyone is forgetting is that the greenest car of all is the one you already have because you don't need to expend any energy at all to produce it, just to maintain it.

nate

Reply to
N8N

As long as we're penciling in aspects that the EPA failed to quantize, lets look again at my favorite failing of conventional IC engine driven vehicles, and that is the necessity for the engine to idle during the 0 to 5 mph crawl on a clogged freeway. We all know that the slower a Prius moves, the more efficient its use of energy becomes. In fact when it stops, the engine turns off, and will stay off if there are no other energy demands for lights or cabin heat. The electric drive system meters out only what energy is necessary to overcome tire rolling resistance and inch the vehicle along in the slow-moving line. No heat - - no fumes - - not even carbon dioxide - - until the battery needs to be topped off for another 2 or 3 miles of emission-free driving.

It's interesting, I was in Palo Alto, Friday, for the big Keeble & Shuchat camera bash (they paid the sales tax - - however - - only after charging quite a bit more than on-line pricing for their products). Back to the subject - - I never saw so many Prius automobiles in one place. I'd say every 5th, or so, car was a Prius. Palo Alto, of course, is a community of the rich, and they know how to save money on gas, and probably like to breathe. The less well-to-do have to drive their smogmobiles until their MPG figures become unbearably low, and even then in their ignorance, they go and buy another smogmobile. Okay, so much for the biased viewpoint of a Prius owner. YES!!!!!!

Reply to
Chuck Olson

You sound like a person that must own a Pirus.

A hummer may not last 300K, but I don't expect a Pirus to last more than=20

100K without a LOT of maintenance and parts being replaced to keep it in=20 as good a service shape as the Hummer. I drive a Pirus for a little=20 while, it was a box, no comfort, hard on the road, got bad MPG on the=20 freeway (at least I didn't think it was worth the cost for the MPG) and=20 seemed to only benefit me when I was doing a lot of City driving.

I've not driven a Hummer, but I did drive and own a Dakota 4x4 V8 Quad=20 Cab for many years, and it weighed 6,000# empty, got about 12MPG, but it=20 ran for over 200K before I traded it on a 4Runner Limited Edition V6.

The premium price and the additional maintenance that can't be done by=20 your typical home mechanic puts the vehicle at a higher impact on green=20 than a Hummer would, not to mention the higher build and retire costs to=20 the environment.

Even if we were to assume their impact was the same over the same period=20 of time - that would mean that a very small, limited power, cramped,=20 poor ride, unable to carry cargo vehicle was no better (green) than the=20 Hummer.=20

--=20

Leythos

- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a=20 drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist" snipped-for-privacy@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Reply to
Leythos

The Prius is optimized for city driving.

You sound like a person that must own a Pirus.

A hummer may not last 300K, but I don't expect a Pirus to last more than

100K without a LOT of maintenance and parts being replaced to keep it in as good a service shape as the Hummer. I drive a Pirus for a little while, it was a box, no comfort, hard on the road, got bad MPG on the freeway (at least I didn't think it was worth the cost for the MPG) and seemed to only benefit me when I was doing a lot of City driving.

I've not driven a Hummer, but I did drive and own a Dakota 4x4 V8 Quad Cab for many years, and it weighed 6,000# empty, got about 12MPG, but it ran for over 200K before I traded it on a 4Runner Limited Edition V6.

The premium price and the additional maintenance that can't be done by your typical home mechanic puts the vehicle at a higher impact on green than a Hummer would, not to mention the higher build and retire costs to the environment.

Even if we were to assume their impact was the same over the same period of time - that would mean that a very small, limited power, cramped, poor ride, unable to carry cargo vehicle was no better (green) than the Hummer.

Reply to
Art

Please fix your Usenet client, it's not properly quoting text and it's not properly posting your reply at the bottom of the thread, allowing you to snip/clip the unnecessary parts.

You've stated the Obvious, and that also means that it will be subject to more wear, more maintenance, more service needs - if I drive 100K miles between Michigan and Georgia in 1 year there will be less wear on the vehicle than if I drive 100K miles in a city environment over 3 years.

City driving is hard on cars in many ways. So, I would never expect a Pirus to last as long as a SUV and it's certainly not going to get that

50MPG when used in the same manner as a SUV.
Reply to
Leythos

Fix your news reader. It's allowing you to capitalize words in ways that make no sense.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

In message news:46642cc7$1@kcnews01, C. E. White sprach forth the following:

The Prius will require a new battery at 100K, at which point the car is worth less than a bucket of spit.

Reply to
Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute

I don't know how long the batteries are supposed to last, but I doubt a Prius would be wore out at 100k.. Batteries maybe, but not most of the rest of the car.. Hummer 300k?? maybe, but it will be guzzling quite a bit of gas in that 300k.. Actually, I think a hummer would be lucky to do 200k without needing some major upkeep.. They are generally offroad vehicles after all. Tires cost a lot more too.. But I was paronoid to go hybrid.. I could have bought a civic hybrid for about 1k more than I paid for the corolla.. But I was scared of future problems with batteries, etc.. Parts like those generally cost big bucks from a dealer. If they are a proprietary design.. Big $$$$$ usually.. On the other hand, the corolla is pretty simple overall, I can work on it without having to do a crash course in hybrid technology, and I don't have to worry about weird parts flaking out on me that cost big $$$$.. It's cheaper too... I really have trouble seeing the prius as much more *green* than the simple corolla in the long run when you consider the cost of the car, and past/present/future problems with batteries or whatever. I assume the scion xb they talk about is even cheaper to run than the corolla. And the corolla is certainly capable of clocking 200k-300k if taken care of. Ditto for a civic.. MK

Reply to
nm5k

Utter bollocks.

Americans really know how to lie big time. And all to keep their retarded SUVs.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

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If that was true, those 100,000 mi would cost the owner $325,000 !

Clearly that's not the case.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

I do. The invented figures are a straight lie.

Bollocks.

Both are old-tech by today's standards. There's *NOTHING* hi-tech about a Prius aside from the "gee whizz" factor.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

In message news: snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com, Eeyore sprach forth the following:

No it wouldn't. Read the sentence again.

Reply to
Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute

Whilst you're right about that point, the truth is far, far worse.

In order to obtain acceptably 'brisk' acceleration from a car, it's quite normal to have an engine of say 100 bhp even in a small car, yet to propel it at say 80 mph on a flat road would only require ~ 20 bhp (to overcome air ressitance and rolling ressitance from the tyres). And yes. I've worked those figures through.

That 100 bhp engine is horribly inefficient at 20 bhp of output. It's still creating vast amounts of waste energy that the cooling system has to remove for example.

In the case of a 200, 300 or 400 bhp engine the waste is worse still.

The great thing about electric motors is that they work at high efficiency over a huge range of power outputs, so you can happily have even a 200 kW ( ~ = bhp) electric motor for blistering acceleration and it *will* be efficient in the cruise too. No waste heat to talk of you see.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

cost vs co2 output are not the same...

Reply to
GO Mavs

Why ?

Most modern vehicles will last up to 200,000 mi with routine maintenance.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

What's a Hummer's city mpg ?

8 ?

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

That's a clear design 'drop-off'.

Easily fixed.

I fail to see why it even needs a 12V battery actually unless it was done for some supposed 'convenience'.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

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