Is the Hummer "greener" than the Prius?

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Nate Nagel wrote:


Yes, I think they're idiots too.
Now stop behaving like them and look at the technology and engineering. It is *NOT* rocket science.
Graham
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Nate Nagel wrote:

I agree. It's critical.

I never thought it was.

Check out what you can actually achieve these days with NiMH and Li Ion instead of believing all the old wives tales you've been told.
Graham
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Eeyore wrote:

See my other post. Your own numbers prove that it's nowhere near competitive to gasoline.
nate
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Nate Nagel wrote:

15kWh in 100kg is perfect for the job. An energy density that exists today.
Graham
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Eeyore wrote:

If by "perfect" you mean "severely compromised," yes.
nate
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Nate Nagel wrote:

God preserve us from such a retarded USonly unit !

M= Mega, m = milli. Please don't confuse these. They're only 1000 million times different !

Modern NiMH can achieve 150Wh/kg. That's 540MJ/kg. That's perfectly adequate for unassisted commuting in a hybrid which is all that's needed.
Graham
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Eeyore wrote:

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
Quiz time: What does "BTU" stand for?
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Nate Nagel wrote:

We don't use Fahrenheit or pounds of water either btw.
Graham
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When you've worked out (and patented of course) a practical serial hybrid for automobiles, do let the auto companies know.
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"Matthew T. Russotto" wrote:

It's already done.
Not in the USA of course.
Graham
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Not in Europe either. Nor even in Japan.
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Look into it some more. There's plenty of high tech inside the Prius. Much of it is the ingenious use of existing technologies to take away gross inefficiencies of the internal combustion engine.
They cherry picked the problems they wanted to solve, but that's OK--the ones they solved were fairly large.
Now, you can stick your head in the sand and not investigate the technology, but that just makes you look like a total ass when you make proclamations like that.
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"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:

It's absolutely not *high tech* outside the auto industry. Ergo it's not high-tech. Period.
The engineering in the Prius is relatively mundane and pedestrian.
Graham
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Eeyore wrote:

You really haven't a clue as to what is involved in scaling down what is basically barely-mobile power plant technology to a midsized automobile, do you? There's a VAST difference between a locomotive, where the weight of the batteries (if any) is essentially nil compared to the train as a whole, and a gasoline (or Diesel) electric hybrid, where a) starting and stopping is far more frequent and dramatic than in a train and b) the batteries make up a significant fraction of the weight of the vehicle, on the order of 20% or more.
To really make a dramatic difference in fuel economy from hybrid technology in an automotive environment, we would need to see vast improvements in energy storage density for the electrical energy used, above and beyond today's cutting edge. All this nice dense energy would still need to a) be available at high currents and b) be able to be recharged at high currents to realize the benefits of downsizing the power plant and fully utilizing regenerative braking.
Even locomotives don't fully utilize regen braking; as far as I know, a lot of the energy generated by electric braking in a locomotive is still deliberately dissipated as heat, as there's nowhere useful for it to go.
Of course, if one were to *make* this breakthrough, it's entirely possible that we could be tooling around in a couple decades in basically fully electric vehicles with a little 20HP engine in the trunk to keep the batteries (or capacitors, or whatever) charged up on long road trips where a high voltage/high current charging station may not be available, but gasoline or Diesel fuel might be. I could even see this power plant being detachable, like a small trailer or a detachable trunk like on vintage cars, so that a car could be used in fully electric mode as a city car.
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Nate Nagel wrote:

Have you never heard of a trolley bus ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_bus
Lots in Europe.
They weren't some insuperable problem for us because they weren't 3000 hp locomotives !
You Americans ! Always looking for complications and reasons not to do things.
Graham
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Nate Nagel wrote:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Elektromote1882.jpg
We Europeans did it in 1882.
Graham
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Nate Nagel wrote:

Scaling down or scaling up ?
This issue you want to present as a problem was solved over 100 years ago. Here's one from 1913 made by Edison.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Ed_d22m.jpg
Graham
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Eeyore wrote:

Then why aren't we driving it today? Hint: it's the batteries. It's always been the batteries.
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Nate Nagel wrote:

And the batteries are getting there.
Graham
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Nate Nagel wrote:

It's do-able right now.
Using the latest NiMHcells, a 15kWh battery pack suitable for a typical day's commuting weights a mere 100kg.
Only better is on the way.
Graham
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