It Finally Happened....GM Bonds Rated Junk

Page 2 of 3  
An optimist might suggest that GM and its union will simply alter their pension and health care systems. I was, after all, the UAW that basically saved Chrysler. They where the ones that agrees
to contract changes and loaned Chrysler a lot of the money they needed ;)
mike hunt
"James C. Reeves" wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
That would be a good outcome...for sure. It also took government guaranteed loans in Chrysler's case as well though.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
True but the loans never defaulted and the government got to keep the Chrysler bonds on which it made a tidy sum.
mike hunt
"James C. Reeves" wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yes, which turned out better than anyone really thought it would...thankfully. (Well, until Daimler bought Chrysler much later...a sad day there). Chrysler needed those government loans initially though or it wouldn't have worked.
I will be interesting in this case since we're actually dealing with both GM and Ford at the same time. Not sure the same sort of deal is even possible this time around. We can keep our fingers crossed though!

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Brad Clarke wrote:

If only that would happen. GM needs its head on straight and a bit of tough love might just be the ticket.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Ford) bonds

have
automaking
Do you have a stake in GM or just like to gossip about GM?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
no_one_you snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com says...

Do you work at a sewage plant or do you just talk like you work at one?
--
_________________________________________________________________
Dennis Smith
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dennis Smith wrote:

one?
Well you just answered my question. You don't even work near the auto industry do you.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@ReMoVyahoo.com (Dennis Smith) wrote in says...

Why is it so offensive to discuss GM's current problems here in a GM newsgroup as they are getting plenty of press and TV time recently. Many people are Brand loyal, but it usually is based upon superior performance, reliability, features not available on other brands, and customer service, but here it seems to be based mostly on blind bias without any regard for anything else. Unfortunately, this kind of arrogance and disdain for their former customers has brought this once giant in the industry to its knees. If you are offended by the current facts, you better hope the management at GM changes its attitude and the way it operates or else you really won't like the news a couple of years down the road.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
If your opinion is correct imagine how many more vehicles GM will sell than Toyota, if they follow your advice. Even if they where actually doing all the bad things you say they are doing GM still sells more than twice as many vehicles as Toyota does today. So does Ford LOL
mike hunt
tango wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
says...

Denial is human nature. Some struggle with it more than others.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
No One You Know wrote:

Simple fact of life and business. Every so often you need to do a garage sale and spring cleaning. Get lean, mean, and have space again for new ideas. All I see with GM and Ford is stodgy bland business like usual mentality, and that's not what I really want to see in a car.
BMW, otoh, they "get it" - their Mini convertable is a sweet little car to drive. They took an old failing design with potential and made it inso something great. GM takes Saab and de-evolves it almost instantly to their oatmeal-esque mentality.
Ford, well, Ford is Ford. They have huge issues that run deeper than management and image/new designs.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Your are confused, AGAIN. SAAB under GM is selling more cars than at any time in its history. Fords 2005 truck line is the number on selling truck line and has been for 28 years. The Escape in the number one selling small SUV and the Explorer is the number one selling mid size SUV. Fords new cars, the 500 and Freestyle are selling quite well without rebates. The new Mustang has more 2005 orders than Ford can produced, even with the increase of production by 80,000 units. Get real
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@ptdprolog.net wrote:

McDonalds sells more burgers than Fatburger, too. GM just traded quality for quantity.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I see what you mean, it is sort of like Camry is now selling more than Taurus Get real ;)
mike hunt
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Yep, BMW sure does get it, lots of your money. I think you don't really get it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
What kind of moron would come into a GM NG to gleefully gloat that this great American company lost money in the first quarter??
Mostly like some jerk that works for McDonald's or some other menial job that owns a five year old import, that he bought used, with no regard for the companies that actually provide decent paying job for millions of Americans.
Particularly when GM was the first company to realize it was the American consumer that would have to restart our economy after the divesting hit the economy took on 9/11.
The whole travel industry was in shambles. Millions of Americans would soon be out of work like thousands were already. Money from the government in loans and grants was not going to do more than move back the time when millions more American workers would begin losing their jobs.
GM spent hundreds of millions of dollars on ZERO interest loans and rebates to get things going again in the US. If GM and other American manufactures didn't do something to restart our economy, at that time, the economy of the world would have gone into a deep depression. The US is after all the worlds biggest market.
Speak to any economist and they will tell you the action by GM was a brilliant move, that lead the other US car and other US manufacture to get with the effort to restart the economy. The Japanese and other import manufactures did next to nothing, except to take more and more money out of the US tax free.
Wake up America, if you expect to have decent jobs available in this country in the future, for your children and grand children, you better start looking at the labels on the things you buy and buy more American good before it is too late. Don't be one of the people out sourcing your own offsprings jobs
mike hunt
No One You Know wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@lycos.com wrote in

You actually have the balls to post this and claim that it had anything to do with GM. The consumer is always the key to keeping the economy going. When fear about the future or anything effects consumer confidence it can have a severe affect on the economy. GM'S zero percent loans had nothing to do with the recovery after 9-11. Several airlines were on the verge of bankruptcy before 9-11, and still are, for the same reason GM is having problems, gross mismanagement by agreeing to contracts with labor which they can't afford, and are out of line with the competition. Industries which have some of the highest paid executives and workers in the world, who turn around and give cash bonuses to these same people and then expect to pass this on to consumers, will end up in trouble as we are seeing in the airline and auto industries. There are other factors but the salaries and foolish agreements they make are one of the main problems.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
tango wrote:

anything to

fear
a
9-11.
still
by
of
in
and
we are

make
Let's see here, $19 billion in ready cash and assets worth in the $100's of billions. Yep, sounds like "gross mismanagement" to me. Really sucks to be GM doesn't it?
The market is tough compitition and rightly so. Too bad the playing field isn't level though. Most other auto companies in far off lands don't have to pay for health care as they have nationalized health care. Then there is the pension thing, well most of the other overseas auto companies are too young to have aquired many retirees yet. Give them another 30 years and see how they react.
As far as wages and bonus payments, good people demand good wages and other benefits. You just wish you had half the benefits the 'Big Three" pay out.
noyk
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

In Japan, they pay their asses off in taxes. And it all goes to pay for healthcare and such, so the net effect is that they end up spending as much if not more per worker.

Japanese companies have excellent compensation for retirees as well. Also, if a company in Japan hires a citizen, it is understood that the offer is good for lifetime employment or until the company goes out of business, if the employee wishes it. (though not so if you aren't a citizen)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.