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I think you'll find that the US's 'medical record', such as infant mortality, isn't as good as you think it is, despite all that (private) spending
DAS

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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:30:57 -0400, Geoff

I was referring to global market share. Market share that was, in part developed by bombing (or benefitting from the bombing) of other motor vehicle manufacturer's plants thereby destroying competitors production capacity (UK, Germany, etc)

upper class and that collectively; through Charity we have destroyed the garment production industry in Africa? Through subsidies we have destroyed the profitable sustainable farming in South America? Through embargo's and subterfuge we have destroyed the Soviet block's standard of living and environmental sustain ability as well as their secure hold on their weapons? Through the world bank we have forced open immature markets and flooded them with consumer goods destroying their developing manufacturers.
Here's the crux of the question: How much did YOU personally do to guarantee these actions took place? How much more productive do you feel you are than an East Indian University graduate working for pennies on your dollar?
Now take that relative comparison and transpose it onto any American CEO's wages relative to any other cultures CEO's wages. Still think that American CEO's are exponentially better?

Compare Standard of Living per hour worked Norwegian to American. Might come as a bit of a shock to you. Many Europeans only work 35 hours per week v/s 45-55 hours per week in the US and England (I should specify that hours worked apply for men primarily).
I wasn't inferring that there would be a return to Feudalism, merely that as an aging and fractionally small percentage of the worlds population we should be thinking of a way of increasing everyone's wealth not just the wealth of a few.
If things continue as they have been the past 10-20 years the US will be looking to China for Aid and support in the Future just as England now looks to the US.
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See below.
DAS
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I really only have one comment to make.... how is the Stock Market a big Casino that I "feed my money into so they can live like a Sultan"? I get mine too. GM pays a $.50/sh dividend each quarter. That is a pretty decent dividend, especially for an auto manufacturer. Their stock is on a decent rise from the fall of the market a few years ago. So I don't see how you are getting screwed on it here. Perhaps if you knew how to make Your Money Work For You, you wouldn't be so angry. This is a capitalistic society. Those who work for it are rewarded for it. Sure, Mr Wagoner may get paid a lot. Part of it may be greed, it may be he is worth it, it may be something else. But look at someone like Henry Ford, he worked tirelessly for years to get his auto company off the ground. He probably spent nights upon nights without sleep, working his ass off, and he was rewarded for it. He made millions, had one of the most powerful companies in the U.S., and there were people who complained about his ways. But I tell you what, if that man offered me a job, I would have taken it and never complained one bit about it. Some companies lie, cheat, steal, but it is our job to educate ourselves on what it is those companies do. Knowledge is the key to success in our world. If you don't like capitalism, I would suggest a country like Sweeden or Switzerland, perhaps even Cuba, North Korea, or Vietnam where everyone is equal (at least according to the rules of communism, but something tells me they are using that word a little loosely... I see dictatorship... but what do I know.) and gets equal pay based off their job description and gets equal food and gets equal housing and the same clothing. Then you won't have to worry about anyone making $14.7 million dollars a year, it will be like $100 a year. You won't have to worry about someone having 17 cows to your 1 or anything, at least in theory, but I am pretty sure in North Korea, they are lucky to have a cow (or ox). I do think some CEO's make too much money, and in a way I think some regulation should be in place, such as when American Airlines is cutting jobs, cutting pay, and filing bankruptcy but the CEO is giving himself a payraise and a bonus it seems a little backassward. Although by filing bankruptcy the courts will decide that stuff. But still. Kmart is another example, offering loans to top executive and pay increases and generous use of company equipment while closing stores and cutting employess instead of investing in the company which drove it into the ground. But I can't complain much cause such is the world of capitalism.
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Seems to me when highly paid GM management manages to go from 50% market share to 28% market share in a couple of decades, there is something wrong with the executive compensation system.
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Once again you have chosen to base your opinion on faulty information. The market has expanded from the vehicles available from around five manufactures in the US to the vehicles from around a dozen manufacture for all over the world. The volume of sales has grown from around 6 million annually then to around 18 million annually today. The fact is GM sells more vehicles today than they did back in the early fifties when they commanded 50% of all vehicles sold in the US.
mike hunt
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How about in the 60's and 70's. And are you including all of the companies overseas, because I don't think the readers of this thread were interested in the output of those factories.

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I forgot to add that market share is just as important as total number of vehicles.

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Apparently you don't even understand your own posts. You said 'GM management manages to go from 50% market share to 28% market share in a couple of decades.' The ONLY time GM was at 50% was in the fifties. The fact remains the volume of sales has grown from around 6 million, the time GM sold 51% of the vehicles sold in the US annually, to around 18 million today of which GM sells around 28%. GM sells more vehicle today, not less, as you implied in your post. You do the math
mike hunt
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Mike you must enjoy being wrong all the time.
http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudgeon/48483/article.html
"General Motors has been consistently losing market share since the early 1970s. While nearly one in every two domestic vehicle sales used to fall under the GM umbrella, the company's share now hovers around 27 percent (including fleet sales), with substantial erosion occurring in the last five years"

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What is your point, clearly you are mistaken once again. What you were implying when you said in your original post "Seems to me when highly paid GM management manages to go from 50% market share to 28% market share in a couple of decades, there is something wrong with the executive compensation system." GM is selling MORE vehicles not fewer. The fact they are doing so against vastly superior numbers of manufactures with whom they must compete today, disputes you mistaken opinion. Obviously you haven't done the math. The fact is, even though GM's market share has dropped to 28% of the market compared to 50% of the smaller market at one time, that the executives of GM are in fact apparently earning whatever remuneration they receive.
mike hunt
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Declining market share suggests an overall erosion of competitiveness. It's not great performance to have a relatively small increase in numbers when the market has grown hugely.
If GM were still so great they'd have a much higher market share.
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If they were making the cars domestic consumers really wanted they would still have over 50% of the domestic market. GM management sucks. Period. I don't care how many cars they make. They can't sell most of them without rebates.

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I see you can't bring yourself to admit when you are wrong, easier to just try to change the subject. The fact is you are still wrong. Toyota and Honda build good cars as well and they too offer rebates. They too are loosing share to other some newer manufactures as well. The fact remains every manufacture is selling more cars in an ever expanding US market. ;)
mike hunt
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On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:52:45 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:

Interesting question for the group. Since the 1950's when Mercedes copied the US car designs have any other marque's or markets copied US design?
I love the Caddy SedanDeVille DTS & DHS but the styling???? Who the hell was in charge of that fiasco???
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Unlikely. US designs got progessvely uglier...
Anyway, in which respect did Merc copy US car designs?
DAS
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On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:58:22 +0100, "Dori A Schmetterling"

dropped before it reached the Cadillac wing proportions. See the link below
http://www.heckflosse.nl/photo.htm This site has a better picture selectoin
This was just a quick google search. I'm sure that there's better site's out there. This is just what I was talking about.
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/W210_crashtest.html second picture from the bottom second last (W110 fin-tail)
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Yes, we had one of those (fintail) in the sities...
That's hardly justification for a generalisation!
DAS
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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:46:12 +0100, "Dori A Schmetterling"

BAH !
Like I'm going to let things like "facts" stand in the way of me making a point ;-)
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You must be satisfied with the performance of your Enron stock too.

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