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Although a certain number of homeless in the US are on the streets rather than in extended-care/half-way house situations, the vast majority are in other categories: 1) single-parent households (usually mother and children) that have been abandoned by the father, 2) low-wage transient laborers who don't have the financial capability to rent (or who are saving all their money and will move back to their permanent home after the work season), and 3) the congenitally un-employed/homeless that just like it - some of these are professional mendicants (ie, beggars).
Floyd
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There are certainly other groups - I was only highlighting one group that grew substantially in the UK substantially at the point of closure of what were long-stay hospitals a few years ago. (It must be said that many of these buildings were inefficient and Victorian, but the government chose not to replace them.)
I am aware of some homeless who like it that way, whatever the reason, but I am sure they are a small percentage.
The rest don't want to be there.
DAS
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For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
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We have some mentally ill patients, many of which, at least in Michigan, were given the boot to the street when we got rid of the last few 'insane asylum's' that we had in the area. The last one to close in the area was over 100 years old, but the state no longer felt like funding it. We have a few homeless that are mentally ill, but I don't forsee it making up a majority. A majority of the homeless, or I guess I should say beggars, are men. Some honestly want help and admit it. But others just want to booze themselves, they will ask for money for food, and if you offer them food they tell you to "F*%& off!". I don't feel much compassion for them. By no means is it easy being homeless, you have a heck of a hill to climb, but its possible.
As far as asking how many homeless I speak to or read about, I serve food to the homeless around the holidays those which most are very thankful for the warm food and warm place to spend some time and the good company. Many of them are men, some are women with children. Some are families.
My point isn't that homeless don't deserve anything, but there are people that give this idea that we should spend billions a year to feed and cloth and shelter homeless, when really we should be offering some sort of employment and perhaps low cost options to them. Not particularly free.

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On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:02:50 -0400, "Sijuki"

And why is it that there is such a difference, that you notice the larger number of men? Is it that social programs are geared towards women? Is it that there is a larger percentage of men who are "mentally ill who have been thrown out of institutional care?
Or have we as a society made a large number of poor men "unemployable" through criminal convictions that are referred to as "youthful indiscretions" when they are done by the wealthy? Ask GWB & Bill Gates how their Drug infractions have hurt their access to capital and employment...... Just a thought.
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Sorry but I know someone who licked leukemia and has rheumatoid arthritis. Real estate agent so self employed and earns about $60k a year. No one will sell her health insurance.

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If her health insurance didn't pay to the terms and conditions of the policy, then go to court. However, IF she didn't have insurance then she obviously _chose_ not to have health insurance before she got sick. That was a bad choice...a gamble taken and lost. It is not the government's fault for the choices we make. You certainly don't expect a company to say, "sure we'll insure you now for $300-$400 a month now that we have to pony-up $500,000.00...it ain't gonna happen. It's like asking a homeowners insurance company to give you a policy after your house burns down...it ain't gonna happen! Folks, get health insurance NOW before you get sick! The odds are very high you will need it!
| Sorry but I know someone who licked leukemia and has rheumatoid arthritis. | Real estate agent so self employed and earns about $60k a year. No one will | sell her health insurance. |
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If you are laid off you can only keep the old insurance for a limited length of time under the law a few years ago. Not sure what the law is now. Also the rates can go sky high when you are laid off and take the plan private. Also the old company can lay off a bunch of people, discontinue the old health plan so the laid off people are not eligible to continue in the old plan. Then they start a new plan for the current employees. Or in some cases the companies go out of business leaving people without health insurance. I guess you live a sheltered life.

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Art wrote:

In the U.S., you would be taling about continuation under the COBRA Act.

True.
I believe they must make it available to continue you under the plan you were under at the time of layoff. BTW - If you get laid off and your previous employer tries to play games with your eligibility for COBRA or what's available under COBRA, call the Department of Labor - they absolutely **LOVE** to go after companies that try to skirt the law in this area. I called the DoL about something that a previous employer was telling me that didn't jive with what the COBRA Act itself seemed to say on the subject, and when I explained the question to the DoL, I had to hold the DoL off from going after them - they begged me to turn them loose on them. I was able to use that fact as leverage to get the previous employer to do what the Act required, and they changed their tune **VERY** quickly (sometimes I wish I had turned the DoL loose on them - they deserved it for several reasons - for one thing, they - a French-owned company - laid off a bunch of Americans in their U.S.-based plant in order to bring French employees over to fill the same spots - a big no-no according to U.S. federal labor laws. There were other sleeze-ball things they did too that I won't go into).

Always a risk, but you could also walk out your door and get run over by a truck too. 8^)
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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Bill Putney wrote:

Meant to type "...you would be talking about...
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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An arguement that could always be inserted into any otherwise intelligent discussion.
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Its called COBRA insurance when you get laid off or quit a job. Its expensive yes, but its insurance. Its not too shabby. You almost always get something in the mail after terminating employment in anyway. I know I always have. Plus I get offered the extensions on my insurance that I had with the company I worked for. You can buy insurance, there is just a cost. There are even insurance companies that will insure you regardless but you will pay a premium. ( a major premium, especially women due to the maintenece care).

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I've been laid off before and you're full of crappola! There are many health insurance options out there from many different providers that will write policies with different coverage options. Have you not looked for them?
| If you are laid off you can only keep the old insurance for a limited length | of time under the law a few years ago. Not sure what the law is now. Also | the rates can go sky high when you are laid off and take the plan private. | Also the old company can lay off a bunch of people, discontinue the old | health plan so the laid off people are not eligible to continue in the old | plan. Then they start a new plan for the current employees. Or in some | cases the companies go out of business leaving people without health | insurance. I guess you live a sheltered life. |
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Spoken like a true republican.
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Hairy wrote:

If you mean stating the facts, you're right. You can get different types of insurance from many sources. They may not be cheap, but they're out there. And there are plenty of safety nets out there for those in dire straits.
Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")
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Let me give you an example of a safety net. There is low cost subsidized health insurance available in most states for children with no coverage. But it is limited and on a first come first serve basis. The demand is much higher than the supply, at least in NC.

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| > I've been laid off before and you're full of crappola! There are many | health | > insurance options out there from many different providers that will write | > policies with different coverage options. Have you not looked for them? | > | | Spoken like a true republican. | | |
And that makes it factually incorrect...how?
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What I'd like to know is: who promised it to everyone? The Constitution sure didn't.
--Geoff
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First you argue there is no class divide. Now you argue the lower class has no rights. Are you a constitutional lawyer or Supreme Court judge? Somehow I doubt it.
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Geoff wrote:

Human compassion ain't your strong suit, is it?
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I don't have a lot of compassion for people who demand "free" stuff that somebody else has to pay for. Especially when that "somebody else" is *me*.
Look, Dan, the group of people who want socialized medicine in America are the same ones who demand free car repair. There is a part of human nature that causes us to feel entitled to getting things at no cost. The better among us resist the urge to demand stuff for free.
Now there are things which government provides, however imperfectly, because it is most expedient for it to do so. Not the best, mind you, just the most expedient. National defense. Roads. The courts. Police and fire service.
But medicine? We need to nationalize 1/7th of our economy? And in so doing reduce the level of service to what can be found in Canada or Great Britain? No, thank you!
I *like* having well-paid, competent doctors who perform their services promptly because of the competitive environment. I *like* having a choice of hospitals, each offering different areas of medicine as their specialty. And I *like* having the benefit of living in a country with the best medicine in the world. Please *don't* screw it up because not everyone can just walk right in and pay cash! Don't make a great system not work well for *anyone* because it doesn't currently work for a minority today!
Please.
--Geoff
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