MILEAGE

Looks like congress has finally realized that there might be a fuel problem.
New federal regs require autos average 35mpg by 2015. ( seven years to catch up to the Toyota Corolla ? )
Of course, Detroit claims it'll add $650 to the price of a car.
I've never worked in the auto industry, so I don't understand;
1. Couldn't they just STOP making/selling the oversized vehicles TODAY ?? ( or this model year )
2. Like TOYOTA, couldn't they concentrate on two or three small car lines. ( powered by 4's ? )
????
--
<rj>



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Who cares if GM raises its prices. People just stop buying their cars. That is happening anyway. I have used electrical bikes 30 years now. I got a new electrical bike last week - el-bike - and it is the first of my electrical bikes that is really easy to charge and use. It is foldable so it is great to bring along on vacations as well. I have already gone many shorter trips on it I normally use the car. My 12 year old daughter also loves it. Looks like I have to get more of these bikes. The new generations of batteries is a hell of a lot lighter and better than the old batteries.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Better do a bit more research if that is what you believe. GM currently makes more vehicles that get 30 MPG or more than ANY OTHER manufacture. GM sales are UP not down from the previous quarter.
wrote:

Who cares if GM raises its prices. People just stop buying their cars. That is happening anyway. I have used electrical bikes 30 years now. I got a new electrical bike last week - el-bike - and it is the first of my electrical bikes that is really easy to charge and use. It is foldable so it is great to bring along on vacations as well. I have already gone many shorter trips on it I normally use the car. My 12 year old daughter also loves it. Looks like I have to get more of these bikes. The new generations of batteries is a hell of a lot lighter and better than the old batteries.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

People, Americans in particular, are like junkies when it comes to their cars. They will not make changes until it is forced onto them,and will then go grumbling down life's highway.
I believe this is a serious issue. Our government is not known for making decisions that are good for the people as a whole. They tend to make decisions that please industry, friends, and contributors.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The government is the problem, not the solution. They need to get out of the way and let someone in the private sector come up with a solution to the problem.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I can't imagine doing my job, which requires 75-100,000 miles a year in a Tojo Corolla. Fine for trips to work and the store, but hardly worthy of extended highway driving. And you're making the assumption that a 4 cylinder engine is the answer, when in reality many larger cars produce mileage nearly as well with more mass, more comfort, and considerably more power.
My full size 04 Impala consistently produces 29-31mpg, An Acura that does the same, and a Nissan maxima that does the same.
interesting that when I had a Nissan Pathfinder with a 3.0 six, I consistently got 18-19mpg., and at the same time had a Jeep Grand Cherokee (one of the most troublesome vehicles I ever owned)... with a huge 5+ liter v8, and I got 19-21mpg on the road with that much larger vehicle.
So perhaps the long term solution is a combination of hybrid's, improved technology in gasoline, and let's not forget diesel.
Willy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Willy turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

I noticed that - while driving a rental four-banger - I am going through more gas than in my Avalanche.
I live in a very hilly area, and the four-banger has a very difficult time maintaining and accelrating on hills than does the AV. The AV will rarely go above 2200 RPM, while the Dodge Caliber I'm driving routinely hits 5000 or 6000 RPM.
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Another example of the wrong engine for the size of the vehicle is the 4cy Camry. Around here the V6 will average more MPG. The 4cy Camry is a real slug that is barely able to maintain the speed limit on the mountains of I-81.
On the EPA mileage window sticker it says the figures are "average figures, your mileage may vary." The mustang is a good example of the truth of that statement. The EPA V8 numbers are 15/23; the V6 number is 17/24. If one lives in mountainous parts of the country where torque is more important than HP, since it is torque that get one going and keeps one going up grades, the V8 will constantly average higher mileage over the same area. When traveling up to my one grandsons home, my heaver V8 Mustang convertible will easily climb the mountain in fifth gear @ 2100 RPMs, while his V6 Mustang coupe will drop down a gear, out of OD, traveling up the seventeen mile road @ 2800 RPMs.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike hunt turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

Yes - my 5.3L Avalanche will regularly get 18-20 mpg in combined city/hwy driving.
On a recent trip from LA to Death Valley, towing a medium (3000lb) tent trailer, I averaged 22 MPG over 900 miles.
Not even counting the fact that I had four people, tons o' stuff and all our food/clothes/sleeping arrangements - a four-banger would've probably gotten worse mileage going up over the various grades, which ranged from below sea level to over 5000 feet.
In fact, one of my former managers, who lives in the high desert (at 3000 ft ) and commutes to San Bernardino (at about 1000 ft) over the Cajon Pass every day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajon_Pass ) bought a 4-cyl camry to replace his aging Lumina with the 3400 engine. He opted for the four-banger over the v6, hoping for better mileage.
Instead, he found that he had worse mileage, because the too-heavy Camry always needed to drop into third or second gear in order to maintain any semblance of speed on the I-15 grade up from the valley to the desert.
Lesson learned.
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The only "fuel problem" is the price.

What about Toyo's SUV's? They don't get all that great mileage either.

For starters, not all 4's are better on fuel then the bigger engines. My supercharged Bonneville get's around 29MPG, and put's out over 240 horses. As for ordering the car makers to stop making big cars, why should you be able to tell me what I can drive? The fact is, the companies make what people buy. If no one bought big SUV's, no one would make them.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

They could, but they won't. Most car buyers in the US want the larger cars. If GM stopped making them, customers would head to Ford or anyone else that makes the larger cars. OTOH, the government "could" mandate they no longer be made, but that would cause riots in the streets. Fact is, as long as gas is available, we're going to buy the big comfy car no matter the cost.
Other countries use smaller cars and trucks and manage to get by. They do it for a couple of reasons. One is the fact that roads are smaller and big cars won't fit, the other is the price of gas. I paid more than double our present gas cost last trip to Europe.

I don't understand the question. Have you looked at the Avalon? Tundra? Lexus? Despite your perception. Toyota builds and sells plenty of big cars. Sure, they have the Yaris, but they also have the Lexus LS and LX in their stable. Don't forget the Land Cruiser at $63,000 and a 5.7 liter V-8 rated at 13 mpg.
They may have some small cars, but they certainly don't concentrate on them. They do have good marketing thought as a lot of people are fooled into thinking they make compacts.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yeah, just let our good old government solve all our problems! I remember fondly a year and a half ago, when our Democrats promised to lower gasoline prices At the time, gasoline was about $2.20 a gallon. Fast forward 18 months, and we have a Democratic controlled Congress, and our gas prices have fallen all the way down to $3.60 a gallon!

Of course, this also includes, (I presume), the Camry, which, I admit,compares favorably to the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix at 30 mpg at this time. I still dont understand why the Chevy and Pontiac models are considered to be 'gas guzzlers", while the Camry is supposed to be a gas "miser", while getting basically the same mileage.

Yes, they could. But most business's are in business to sell things that PEOPLE want, not what the government wants them to sell. I guess that is subject to change, though.

It's not the government's job to dictate what types of cars manufacturers make, nor the type of cars we drive. Check the US Constitution, and I am pretty sure you will not find any mention of these types of things.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
It's not the government's job to dictate what types of cars manufacturers make, nor the type of cars we drive. Check the US Constitution, and I am pretty sure you will not find any mention of these types of things.
Au contraire...... Government passes most laws for "the good of society".
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The Constitution doesnt say much about auto makers, and government involvement, does it ;>)
But just as they have dictated CAFE compliance, emission controls and values, etc, they apparently they CAN involve themselves in any way they deem necessary under environmental legislation, interstate commerce, etc.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
RJ turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

What oversized vehicles do they make?
I haven't seen more than a few F650 or Kodiaks out there.
While my Avalanche is in the body shop, I'm driving my wife's subcompact saturn Vue v6.
Damn is it small!

Huh?
AFAIK, Toyota has everything from the tiny subcompacts like the Tercel, Yaris and Corolla to compacts like the Camry and Avalon and E330, to full size cars like the LS450 and the tank the LandCruiser.
your point?
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Toyotas growth, over the past ten years, has been in SUVs, trucks and luxury cars, not in small cars. Even the "small" cars they sell today are much bigger, heaver and more powerful than the "midsize" cars they sold ten years ago as well. Toyota grew buy offering the bigger, heaver and more powerful vehicle that American prefer to buy. Contrary to what many believe the fuel economy of domestics is as good, or better, than the vehicle of the same size and power, sold by Toyota.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
DUH! All manufactures offer small cars for sale today, that get better mileage than the mid size cars they offer for sale. Buyers CHOSE to buy the midsize cars, not the smaller car however. As a resilt the number one selling cars for all manufactures are their midsize car, not their small cars. All manufactures prefer to sell what buyers want to buy.
Government can not change that fact. Forccing manufacturers make only small cars will only lead to smaller, more expensive small cars as well as even higher gas prices since demand for fuel will drop and oil companies will want to make more per gallon on the gas they do sell.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
RJ turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

Okay, I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I couldn't resist.
I decided to take up a little survey. I consulted edmunds.com and compared all GM cars/trucks with all Toyota cars/trucks. I then listed each one out, along with the mileage reported to Edmunds.
A few rules I followed:
1. Since no one wants an underpowered car, I picked the larger engine when a choice was given.
2. Since I can't imagine anyone wanting to drive a stickshift, I picked an auto transmission when possible.
3. In a few cases - the GMC and Chevy work trucks - the mileage is not listed. I labeled them as zero, but real-world mileage depends on the engine used. Gas 2500/3500 trucks get around 12/18 MPG while diesel models get 16/20, from what I understand.

Toyota (Lexus/Scion) makes 35 models of cars/trucks/vans.
Seven models - 20% - are trucks or vans. 22 models - 62% - are midsize or larger. Seven models - 20% - are considered compact or smaller.
GM (Buick/Chevy/GMC/Pontiac/Saturn) makes 54 models of cars/trucks/vans.
18 models - 33% are trucks or vans. (Note that six models are work trucks or full-size vans, which don't exist in Toyota's lineup.) 21 models - 38% - are midsize or larger. 10 models - 18% - are considered compact or smaller.

Um, I think you need to check your numbers, mr/ms troll.
I'd say both companies are producing about the same amount of cars/trucks in similar categories.
For your benefit - I put the files on my website
http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2008/car_compare.ods - OpenOffice spreadsheet using standard .ods format.
http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2008/car_compare.pdf - PDF format of same document.
Here's the list.
General Motors Model Mileage Enclave 16/22 LaCrosse 17/25 Lucerne 15/22 CTS 18/26 DTS 15/23 Escalade 12/18 ESV 12/18 EXT 12/18 SRX 15/22 STS 17/26 STS-V 13/19 XLR 15/24 XLR-V 14/21 Avalanche 14/19 Aveo 24/34 Cobalt 22/30 Colorado 17/22 Corvette 16/26 Equinox 17/24 Express 12/16 HHR 20/28 Impala 18/29 Malibu 22/30 Malibu Hybrid 24/32 Silverado 1500 14/18 Silverado 2500HD 0/0 Silverado 3500HD 0/0 Suburban 14/20 Tahoe 14/19 Tahoe Hybrid 20/20 Trailblazer 14/20 Uplander 16/23 Acadia 16/22 Canyon 18/24 Envoy 14/20 Savannah 12/16 Sierra 1500 14/18 Sierra 2500 Work 0/0 Sierra 23500 Work 0/0 Yukon 14/19 Yukon Hybrid 20/20 Yukon XL 14/20 H2 0/0 H3 13/16 G5 24/33 G6 18/29 G8 15/24 Grand Prix 16/25 Solstice 19/25 Torrent 16/24 Vibe 26/33 Astra 0/0 Aura 17/26 Aura Hybrid 24/32 Outlook 16/24 Sky 19/25 Vue 16/23 Vue Hybrid 25/32
Toyota Model Mileage 4Runner 15/19 Avalon 19/28 Camry 19/28 Camry Hybrid 33/34 Camry Solara 18/27 Corolla 26/35 FJ Cruiser 15/18 Highlander 17/23 Highlander Hybrid 27/25 Land Cruiser 13/18 Matrix 25/31 Prius 48/45 Rav4 19/27 Seqoia 13/18 Sienna 16/21 Tacoma 16/20 Tundra 13/17 Yaris 29/36 ES350 19/27 GS350 18/25 GS450h 22/25 GS460 17/24 GX470 14/18 IS250 20/26 IS350 18/25 IS F 16/23 LS460 16/24 LS600h 20/22 LS570 12/18 LX570 12/18 RX350 17/22 RX400h 26/24 SC430 16/23 tC 21/29 xB 22/28 xD 26/32
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.