Mother & Aunt's cars

Seeing how long you kept your Bonneville, you should have definately invested in a SSE model. Would have looked much better throughout the years.

BB,

I see some 87- 91 SSE's around here that look like they should of been in the junkyad 6 years ago. All rusty, smashed, parts missing from them. One guy has a black one you could stick a basketball through the hole in the left rear door above the body molding.

I'm not sorry I didn't buy the SSE over the LE. It had the same engine specs as mine just a different axle ratio, same for the SE. I've ridden in a friends 89 SSE & its like riding in a cement truck.

I also didn't want a car with aluminum mags wheels, 15 - way power seat, ABS, electronic climate control. I also didn't want to spend over $25,000 for a car. I didn't even want to spend $17,000 for mine, but I did.

Next car will no doubt cost big bucks and unfortunately I can't get away from aluminum or chrome wheels, electronic climate control, driver info centers, auto level ride control, DRL's, automatic headlights, ABS, air bags and idiotic radio systems and all the other standard features built into the cars.

========= Harryface =========

1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~_~277, 028 miles_~_~_ ~_~_

Why buy another car? You seem to love your Bonny, why not just keep it forever...perhaps a bit of wishful thinking in this throw away society. It sound like you've got your money's worth out of your vehicle which is more then most people can say for a car as old as yours.

Personally, I would never get rid of my car. If ever it suffered some terrible end, it would just be motivation for a ground up restoration! There's nothing that some money and a hell of a lot of time can't fix.

Shane W.

1988 Olds T.S.

Shane,

I hear what your saying about keeping a car & fixing it up. Problem is, the relatives I have are none to kind when it comes to comments about ( me ) investing money into a vehicle and it becomes the topic of conversations at Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas. They' ll bring up anything to embarrass or belittle a person.

When I had front & rear shocks & springs put on a 68 Buick LeSabre convertible in 1983, my uncle's reaction was, " What the hell you putting springs on that car for "? My dad freaked out too when he heard about it after the job was done.

That cost $300, later that summer I had a new top & rear window replaced & that cost $600 - $600 is all I paid for the whole car...lol.

I stopped showing pictures to my family ( especially my aunt & uncle ) of old cars taken at car shows. They just shake their heads at all those people who put thousands of dollars into restoring a vehicle, They'll never understand it so there no use explaining it to them.

Other comments about other cars I've owned over the years:

What are you fixing on the heap now?

When you going to get rid of that heap?

How MUCH is that going to cost?

HOW MUCH! ?

What the hell you need a new top for ?

Why don't you sell that heap !

Your Crazy !

Don't any more money into it.

Quit putting money into that junker !

If I went on a trip somewhere I was asked'

You think the heap will make it ?

When I went to Colorado in 1988 I had to take a picture of me & my friends and my car posing in front of the sign at the top of Pikes Peak saying " You made ot to the top ", to prove the car made it to the top of Pikes Peak,

I got one aunt & uncle who kept cars till they were 10, 15 & 16 years old but had less than 70,000 miles on them when they were sold. Those cars were not considered heaps - only my cars are, because I put more miles on & they require more service.

I've considered maybe putting a remanufactured engine in this car, I just never priced one. A guy I bowl with had a Jasper engine put in a 88 Olds Custom Cruiser wagon ( at 90,000 ) and he claims this engine runs stronger & better than the original dog 305V8 .

With this kind of mileage & the fact I drive 25,000 to 30,000 a year things can start going wrong at the drop of a hat. The radiator tank cracking open was a big surprise to me last Sunday. I actually don't consider a 13 year old car old. But it has more miles than a typical 13 year old car.

My neighbor has a 1991 Olds 88, she has 24,000 on it. Mom has 50,000 on a 91 Caddy, Another neighbor has a 78 Olds 88 with 23,000 miles, well that car is old.

Oh well, only time will tell, my next out of state journey isn't until May & I hope it makes it...lol

========= Harryface =========

1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~_~277, 028 miles_~_~_ ~_~_

(easy answer to all of the above (hey, it's YOUR money, ain't it)

NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS...

(your answer to them) Why, do you want the money?

( your answer) no, you are

me too. tell 'em to mind their own business dammit!!!!

and then don't give them any rides, if your car is the source of belittlement from them, why would you ever let them ride in it??

Friends you can choose, your relatives, you're stuck with...

Wir welle bleiwe wat mir sin (Letzebuergesch)

Yes, I agree HarryFace...which is one reason I sadly went back to Chrysler products recently since you can still get a nice but relatively simpler car with less of the useless gimmicky things that you listed on it. Although they are starting to become Lemmings in that regard too, often you can order the car without most of those items you mention...at least at this time as far as I know.

You can get a small car. Small cars are really slim on standard equipment. You can get an '04 Toyota Echo with maybe just AT and AC for $12,000 and probably get 200K miles out of it and get 40mpg at the same time. I love the styling of the Echo. It's different, but I like different. If you want to stay with a domestic model, try a base Neon or a Ford Focus.

Well, if we're doing a recommendation for cars without most of the things that HarryFace doesn't want, I think you can go mid-sized (at least) and still get most of the task done. Since HarryFace drives his Bonneville 25,000 to 35,000 miles a year, I doubt very much that he would be very satisfied with a base Echo, Neon or Focus...the rough ride on those would beat him up too much!

Just one example of a mid-size that would come close to the order is my wife's

2003 Dodge Stratus SE...

...does _NOT_ have climate control, DRLs, automatic headlights, ABS, auto-level ride control. Controls are simple and easy to use and work exactly the way every driver would expect them to work. Nothing fancy, but very functional.

...does have, Aluminum wheels (but can get without) Driver info center (but can get without) Idiotic radio/CD (well, it's less idiotic then some) Air Bags (yes and only side curtains optional) Keyless Entry (but can get without) Power locks/doors (I think you're stuck with those)

The standard engine is a 150 horse 4-cylinder, but I have never driven the

4-cylinder, so don't know if it's any good. The optional engine is a 2.7 DOHC V6 at 200 horses and 190 ft.lbs. torque at around 4,750 RPM, quite adequate with very very nice top end punch for highway passing and effortless mountain climbing (compared to the 3.1 Malibu I had that was a little breathless at the top end...although a little better than the Stratus at the low end, "off the line").

Price...probably get one for around $17K...maybe less.

AND, I think you can get the Dodge Intrepid, even larger car, without most of this stuff too! On the Ford side, special order a Crown Vic probably without most of this stuff...maybe a Taurus as well.

HarryFace, I think you can find close to what you want (actually don't want), but you'll likely have to look somewhere other than GM for it, I'd bet (unless they're listening!).

This Justin must not know us in here. An Echo, a Focus or a Neon for me? I think not ! My big cooler wouldn't even fit on the floor of the backseat.

To JCR : My 89 Z-24 rough handling could equal that of the other peanut cars mentioned above.

As you mentioned, a base Crown Vic / Grand Marquis GS, ( or a Marauder ) would work out very well.

I have rented both the CV & GM & their automatic climate control actually works very good as I recall. Both cars are big & fast and priced around $14,000 less than the base Park Avenue. But then there's that four letter " F" word I'd have to contend with.

========= Harryface =========

1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~_~277, 300 miles_~_~_ ~_~_

"Harry Face" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3116.bay.webtv.net... | This Justin must not know us in here. An Echo, a Focus or a Neon for me? | I think not ! My big cooler wouldn't even fit on the floor of the | backseat. | | To JCR : My 89 Z-24 rough handling could equal that of the other peanut | cars mentioned above. | | As you mentioned, a base Crown Vic / Grand Marquis GS, ( or a Marauder | ) would work out very well. | | I have rented both the CV & GM & their automatic climate control | actually works very good as I recall. Both cars are big & fast and | priced around $14,000 less than the base Park Avenue. But then there's | that four letter " F" word I'd have to contend with. | | ========= | Harryface | ========= | | 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE | 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey | _~_~_~_~277, 300 miles_~_~_ ~_~_ | | |

Yes, I agree that 4-letter F-word is worrisome. I haven't had a lot of luck with Fords over the years either. Out of three that I've owned, only one was half decent (a 1984 Escort wagon, of all things!). I traded my 1967 Pontiac GTO (with 165,000 miles, but still running strong) on a 1975 Ford Mustang II V6. BAD mistake...had all sorts of tranny problems (4-speed manual) and mechanical lifters that wouldn't hold adjustment...so the valves were always noisy. Traded that on a loaded 1978 LTDII (302 V8), another mistake, it was totaled in a engine fire at 60K miles and needed a tranny rebuild at 24K miles (extended warranty covered). Got married and the wife had a 1978 Chevy Chevette..a fairly good little runabout vehicle, fairly trouble free and reliable. Had a couple of kids so we traded the Chevette on a 1984 Escort Wagon 5-speed with the 1.6 H.O. engine and it was a fairly decent car...it ran forever (don't remember the mileage, but not as high as your Bonnie!) ;-) It did have a ignition system failure at about 80K, but was fixed easily. A still growing family got us into the Chrysler line for the 1st time with the 1987 Grand Caravan... absolutely _excellent_ vehicle and one of the most trouble free I've ever owned. Sold it to a friend in 1997 (to buy a 1997 Caravan...still trouble free too) They drove the 87 nearly to 200K miles before we lost touch with them.

One of the women at work has a early/mid-90's vintage Mercury Marquis with ~200,000 miles on it...she says it still runs perfectly. So maybe that is actually a good direction to look. There is another guy at work with a early '90's Crown Vic...I'll ask him about his experiences for you next week. Maybe the large Fords have gotten better than what I knew many years ago and will fit the bill (as they say). I think the new Chrysler 300C and Dodge Magnum are going to be a little (no _way_) too pricey.

Speaking of coolers, I almost forgot. The wife and I tote around a large

98-quart Coleman cooler for bi-weekly runs to Sam's Club to bring back the bulk cold stuff in. It fit's easily in the trunk of the Stratus with room to pack in all the non-refrigerated things like cases of sodas, 55lb bags of dog food, cases of paper towels, etc. But, the interesting thing is that the cooler didn't fit as well in the Malibu we used to have for one reason...the hinge design on the trunk lid. I noticed that even on my neighbor's Buick LeSabre's, the trunk hinges are designed in such a odd way as to _significantly_ invade the trunk cavity space when the lid is closed. IF a cooler (or other large hard object) happens to need to be under one of the hinges, you can't close the trunk lid...even though it would close fine if not for the way the hinge is designed. I assume your Bonnie has this same GM hinge design. It makes a huge difference when needing to carry around a large object like a cooler. In comparison, the Dodge Stratus hinge design doesn't go into the trunk cavity at all, so you can place the cooler anywhere you want without worry that you can't get the lid down. I don't know how the ford trunk hinge is designed though.

Hinge design on my car is alright. I think some of the cars built around

2000 used a C shaped hinge and that came quite far down into the trunk. I think the current Park Ave and Bonneville has the C shaped hinge . I think it so the trunk lid can open to an almost verticle position or slightly beyond verticle.

The Impala/ Intrigue has the hinges in the water channel.

You keep having them babies and your sig will be :

JCR = 15 passenger -

2004 Dodge Ram Van.

LOL !

========= Harryface =========

1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~_~277, 300 miles_~_~_ ~_~_

No, I'm done with babies (I hope)...trying to get the oldest married daughter to give us some grandkids now!!! :-)