No more GM for me? Maybe Toytoa

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You might want to look a bit deeper, but in any event in your example twenty-five percent higher IS a big difference in price and $600 will buy a lot of small parts. LOL

mike hunt
wrote in message Toyota parts can

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But we are also looking at a 4 speed versus a 5 speed. Of course the new Camry has a 6 speed.
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Methinks you have you mind made up and want to reinforce your decision.. Like I said its your money spend it where you wish, I could not care less. You might want to ask yourself this question. If Toyotas are that good why are the NOT the number one seller, in ANY segment of the market, other than the Camry in the mid size class? Why does one see so many Toyotas being traded in on other brands? Look in used are lots of other brands and see the Toyotas there for yourself.
Toyota does indeed make good stuff, but all other manufactures are building good stuff today as well. Buying one particular brand thinking it will be even marginally batter than any other is a myth. Every survey shows between 1% and 2% of all manufactures vehicles have defects in the first five years, which means around 98% of all manufactures vehicles do not have defects in the first five years.
With my experience in the business people are always asking my advice on which to buy. My answer is go drive all those that meet your needs, then get a TOTAL DRIVE HOME and buy the one you like that best suits your budget. ;)
mike hunt
wrote in message Toyota parts can

More important that small differences in cost, is the longevity

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wrote in message Toyota parts can

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Nope, mind not made up yet. The list has narrowed from my first choices. I'm still going to drive and price a couple of makes and models. As I said, Lucerne was a shoe in until recently, but then I got hit with that big tranny bill.
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wrote in message Toyota parts can

I just did some checking. Toyota parts may be 5% to 10% more. Hardly "three times as much." There's also aftermarket parts available, just like for GMs, at the same prices.
You're better off buying a Toyota and shopping around for parts and service. Need brakes or exhaust? Skip the major brake-and-muffler chains, work with an independent mechanic. Saved $130 last month doing that.

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You are entitled to you own opinion but it is the opinion of a minority. GM, Ford and Chrysler sold 57% of all the vehicles sold in the US in 2005. It took all of the other twenty some import brands combined to sell the remaining 43% . The fact remains GM sells more vehicles in the US than any other. In reality the best selling import brand is only in fourth place, preceded by Chrysler and Ford. More American obviously prefer domestics
If you want to spend a lot more money to buy an import brand hopping you will get one of their 98% that are trouble free, rather than spending less to get one of the domestics 98% that are trouble free, you are free to do so. I prefer to buy the one that best suits my needs and meets my budget. I have never owned a vehicle, foreign or domestic, that had problems in any event.
mike hunt

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/25/AR2006032500112.html
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Mike,
You forget that while the domestics may have 57% of the market, their share keeps declining. We all know that is less than 5 years the "imports" which include domestically made/assembled Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans etc. will take more than 50% of the market. Unfortunately the domestics with limited exceptions have not been making sytlish cars which have been Detriots strength. If they did buys would come back. Look at the Chyrsler 300, Dodge Charger, Ford Mustang etc.
BTW, I have only owned Chrysler products.
Mike Hunter wrote:

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GM paid out hundreds of thousand to repair vehicles with problematic gaskets, as well. It depends on when the problem occurred, warranties that were extended by the manufactures to help in recover the costs, where limited in time/mileage like any other warranty. If you problem occurred outside the time/mileage limit you would not be reimbursed. Ford warranty was 100K 7 years. Other were different, Toyota was five years unlimited mileage, if I recall correctly.
mike hunt

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that
So - just what was this super secret, select customer extended warranty that GM offered Mike? And for how long? For what model year cars?
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Mike Marlow wrote:

GM extends the warranty for 3.1/3.4 intake manifold gasket repairs on all their vehicles. They also extend their warranty on any head gasket problems on the the 3.4 engine. They also warranty pretty much any and all brake problems right to the end of the 3 year warranty. This was not the case a few years ago. This includes brakes wearing out, and brake pulsation problems.
We do so much goodwill warranty at our dealership it's not funny. Which only goes to show you that the GM product has some serious problems at the moment. It will take a while to weed out all the 3.1/3.4 engines. At this point, there are very few problems with other engines in the GM lineup.
Ian
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Well thank you Ian. This is the first time I've seen someone actually state this with any credibility. What is the warranty extension on the 3.1 and the 3.4 intake gaskets? Mileage, Age,? How about the 3.4 head gasket?
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Mike Marlow wrote:

Any vehicle with the 3.1/3.4 engine will automatically be repaired under warranty up to 100,000 klms and 5 years...no questions asked. Even after that, I've seen numerous goodwill work orders go through the system. A lot depends on the customer....and how much they patronize our dealership.
The 3.4 head gasket does a couple of things. It has two tabs that stick out from the cylinder block/head parting line about 1/2 an inch. We often see Dexcool seeping from this area and crusting up as it gets burnt off from the engine temperature. At first, we were replacing the gaskets like crazy, until GM got wind of it and put the hammer down on that. So no head gasket replacements if there are just signs of dexcool crud at those points.
But the other thing that the head gaskets do is just split. It's always along the outer edge, and it's almost always the rear head gasket at the front edge. The split extends into a coolant passage, so of course you end up with a coolant leak. I've almost "never" seen a head gasket failure that leaks coolant into a cylinder on these engines. Probably happens, but it's very rare.
GM covers the head gaskets the same way they cover the intake gaskets.
Believe me, GM knows they have a big problem. I think they are hoping to smooth things over until those engines simply disappear. The new engines that are still based on the 3.1/3/4 design have different style gaskets and even use a regular gasket now for end seals, instead of using RTV (which also was big source of oil leakage from the intake gaskets).
Any of the newer engine that do not use a wet manifold design just don't have any of these problems. Most of the GM engines are like this now. Another few years and I doubt that there will be any V engines around with wet manifolds.
Ian
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That is easy to answer. There is no such thing as a 'secret' warranty. Call a dealer, give them the VIN number and build date of the vehicle. They can tell you what, if any, extended warranty applies and whether your vehicle still qualifies or not. Some warranties apply to only the original owner, however.
mike hunt

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Mike Hunter wrote:

It wasn't that easy, because you answered wrong! Call them what you want, goodwill warranty and what you are referring to (special policies) are two different things. A "special policy" actually extends much longer then goodwill warranties. An example of a "special policy" was the head gasket issue on the 2.0 engines in certain years of Chev Cavaliers.
In the case of the above "special policy", the owners were covered up to 7 years/160,000 klms "and" the owners could get reimbursed if they had the work done elsewhere and weren't aware of the fact that there was a "special policy".
GM's goodwill warranty on the intake gaskets is not the same as a "special policy". Personally, I think the intake gasket issue should have become a "special policy" issue, but I'm just the piano player.
So for the average guy, GM's goodwill policy on the intake gaskets could easily be seen as a "secret" warranty, as no one is going to offer up the info to you.....but it will be available if you happen to have the problem. You will "not" be able to call the dealership, give them your VIN, and have them say to you....."oh yeah....there is a "special policy" on your intake gaskets".....because there is no such thing on the books.
By the way, "special policies" are available thru the online Service Information website (which only GM people can access). So if someone wants to know if there is any particular "special policy" that applies to their vehicle, I can look it up for them (at my leisure, of course).
Ian
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You are missing the point, the poster has been improperly and falsely badmouthing GM in this NG by saying GM has done nothing to help those with gasket related problems, and that is simply not factual. GMs efforts are well known and I said is NO such thing as a 'secret' warranty, and that IS factual. Whatever they are called they are not secret or YOU would not about them and I doubt you are a Dealer Principle. How can they be secret when all one need do is ask if their vehicle meets the programs criteria? ;)
mike hunt

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are
and
Mike - once again you prove yourself the fool. I would wager 90% of GM owners have no idea that GM will in any way stand behind the intake gasket issues out of warranty. I've bought gaskets at the dealership and no mention was ever made about goodwill, special policies or anything else. GM has done nothing to publicize these "efforts" as you call them and in fact continues to hide them in that only GM people have access to the information. Post a url Mike, where GM's "efforts" are publicized by GM so as to make their customers aware of them.
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Have you ever tried doing what you were I instructed to do in a previous posts, to see if your particular vehicle is covered by any of the various gasket warranties? Apparently not, others have given you the same advice yet you are too stupid to take it. You would rather complain about how you have been victimized.
We replaced literally hundreds of gasket under extended warranties on GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda and other vehicles during the time when they were all having gasket problems. Methinks you the one who is the fool to pay for a repair while many other owners in the same situation were covered under an extended warranty. I'll waste no more time trying to enlighten somebody who would rather bitch and moan.
mike hunt

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you
Yawn. No victim here Mike. Just stating the facts, which seems to be a foreign concept to you. The fact is that your claim of well distributed information is precisely *not* that. But, don't let that little thing stand in your way.

Would that be in your fleet maintenance business? Kindly equate that to the average consumer. Apples and oranges look alike to you don't they Mike?

covered
You'd be hard pressed Mike, to come up with a high percentage of GM customers who were unexpectedly surprised by their dealers when their intake gaskets were announced to be covered under an extended warranty. Most dealers simply quote the price and take the money. I never paid to have a gasket set replaced. Your reading comprehension fails you again Mike. I stated that I bought the gaskets from the dealer - installed them myself. Said dealer (whom I purchased the car from), made no mention of any extended programs that might cover this car.
If you're going to continue to participate in a forum where the written word is the method of communication Mike, you really should learn to read.
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Hey Ian - thanks again for the straight scoop on this stuff. This is worthwhile information.
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