NUMMI Story on "This American Life"

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http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/nummi
I listened to this yesterday. Very pro-Toyota and anti-GM. Completely one sided since the only GM people they interviewed were connected to NUMI. Most
seemed bitter. I think they greatly over simplified the story in order to praise Toyota. It really made the UAW look bad. Typical NPR stuff., but still it was interesting.
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On 03/28/2010 02:04 PM, C. E. White wrote:

did they mention the fact that g.m. exports its jobs to, and imports componentry from china? or did they simply point out that toyota creates american jobs and buys their componentry from american manufacturers? i doubt they said that japan is an ally and that china is not. or that american taxpayer support of companies that export their business and jobs to a country that completely disrespects human rights, democracy or intellectual property is nothing short of fraud.
you're perpetrating a fraud ed. you should hang your head in shame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudience
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It looks like Toyotas propaganda has you convinced. LOL

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What percentage of Toyota parts are sourced from a communist dictatorship? Show your source when you respond.

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I doubt Mike or anyone else outside of Toyota knows that. I am sure some are. Toyota is definitely doing buisness in China. They have set up several joint ventures there to manufacture parts. Here are some references:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200407/30/eng20040730_151335.html http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-07/26/content_249476.htm http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_4_184/ai_n6015058 / http://www.faw.com/international/toyota.jsp
If you think that Toyota isn't using Chinese suppliers, I think you are not paying attention to what is going on in the world.
Ed
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On 03/29/2010 04:51 AM, C. E. White wrote:

they're using chinese suppliers for the chinese market ed!!! gm is using chinese suppliers for the american market. and thus using taxpayer dollars to export jobs to china.
really ed, you need to grow some moral backbone, go get yourself a real job and stop trying to pollute the media with your twisted bullshit.
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And you don't think Toyota is also using Chinese suppliers for the cars they build in America and for the cars they build in Japan and export to America? I think you would have a hard time proving that.
I still don't understand how you can grumble about GM using Asian suppliers (including Chinese suppliers) while at the same time shilling for Toyota when the facts are that GM still uses a higher percentage of domestic parts, employs more US citizens than Toyota, and contributes much more to the US economy than Toyota. I can understand and even agree with your complaints about out sourcing to China. I just can't seem the logic of trashing GM for this and then excusing Toyota for doing the same thing.
I have complained multiple times about how the US government bailed out GM. But the facts are that the Japanese government also provided emergency financing to Toyota and the US government has been indirectly subsidizing Toyota through programs like cash for clunkers and hybrid car tax rebates. You need to be fair in your criticism of GM and recognize that they are not doing things much differently than Toyota.

You need to examine the illogic of your postions.
Ed
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On 03/29/2010 06:57 AM, C. E. White wrote:

it's not as easy as astroturfing ed - i'll give you that!

i'm not shilling for anyone ed - don't accuse me of your despicable behavior.

"facts" - you mean that "weighted" but mysteriously sourceless bullshit you quoted earlier? yeah, those are "facts"!

really? the "old" gm only had 30k-odd americans on salary. all the other numbers in their accounts were consolidations of various hourly workers from various locations. but you have a access to more political data than i.

"contributes"???????????? so sucking off the taxpayer's teat to the tune of >$30 billion is "contributing"???

but toyota are /not/ doing the same thing ed - they're not using american taxpayer money to export jobs to china. and they're not ripping off the american consumer by selling them shit either.

are toyota exporting american jobs to china at the american taxpayer's expense?

whoops - you should pass this mistake back the review/editing committee ed...

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Not sure how this would relate to the current subject, but don't forget the $8 billion that Jesse Jackson blackmailed out of Toyota in 2001.
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Bill Putney
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@mindspring.com says...

Waste of time, but have some fun if you like. Not often free punching bags make an appearance.
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Thanks for the info, but facts don't matter when Hunter makes statements.
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On 28/03/2010 5:52 PM, jim beam wrote:

Are you still holding onto the myth that GM's bailout was ever about jobs?
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jim beam wrote:

What components and how much does it import from China? Does GM have Chinese partners who, together, make cars for the Chinese market, thereby moving GM into a new market?

Toyota does import many of its parts (more than the Michigan 3).

The alternative is to let poor people in China stay poor.
JEff

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On 03/28/2010 06:51 PM, dr_jeff wrote:

gm has considerable manufacturing capacity in china. and it makes and sells vehicles there for that market. but it also uses that capacity to make things like seats, drive shafts, brakes, wiring looms, computers and instrumentation for our market. taxpayers supporting those operations is utterly ridiculous when millions of americans are out of work.

sadly, it doesn't. camry for instance is 80% locally sourced. that's better than typical gm.

chinese peasants staying poor, as they have for millennia under assorted despots and tyrants, is a damned sight more tolerable to me than watching americans /become/ poor because their jobs have been shipped to a country that also steals their intellectual property and money.

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On 03/28/2010 08:10 PM, jim beam wrote:

and who threatens our allies in the region.

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jim beam wrote:

What percentage of these components sold in the US are made in China? The Michigan 3 sell cars with a higher percentage of US-made components than the import brands, although until the end of the Bush administration, they came close.

Typical GM is around 75-80%. Typical Toyota and Honda around 55-60%. Particular models, like the Sienna, are around 85% US-made. The numbers are from before the end of the Bush era. After that, a lot has changed like the closing of the NUMMI plant. Toyota may import a different percentage of its cars than before because of different models selling better and other economic reasons.

I disagree. You could have made the same argument for Korea 40 years ago. Yet, S. Korea, where we important a lot from has done quite well. N. Korea, from whom we important next to nothing is still dirt poor.
Jeff

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On 03/29/2010 03:04 AM, dr_jeff wrote: <snip>

what part of north korea being a belligerent that sells missile parts to other despots and south korea being an ally are you missing?
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I'm ok with that. As the Americans are layed off at my company more H1B's from India take their place. I guess to Britain India is the good colony, America is the bad colony.
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As long as China is a communist dictatorship, which it is, the Chinese will always be poor, and it's got NOTHING to do with how much money they have.
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As I have pointed out to you several times, if your goal is to buy the products with the most domestic content, then GM is who you would buy from.
Toyota also build vehicles and components in China, just like GM, only more so.
You are an uber-hypocrite - protecting a foreign manufacturer while trashing GM by complaining that they are buying some components from China. If you want to be a free-trade advocate and say we should turn the US car industry over to the Japanese because they are better at it, then I can understand that point. What I can't understand is this idea that you think it is OK to turn the US car industry over to Toyota while blasting GM for doing exactly the same sorts of things that Toyota does.

You should read about how Toyota treats "guest workers" or how they exploit labor in places like Thailand. Toyota has a long history of oppressing workers outside of the "home" factories. Toyota loves to show you pictures of the shiny main assembly palnts in US and Japan. They never show you pictures of the sweat shops they operate through subsiduaries. GM just wants to get on the Toyota bandwagon.

Ed
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