I listened to this yesterday. Very pro-Toyota and anti-GM. Completely one
sided since the only GM people they interviewed were connected to NUMI. Most
seemed bitter. I think they greatly over simplified the story in order to
praise Toyota. It really made the UAW look bad. Typical NPR stuff., but
still it was interesting.
did they mention the fact that g.m. exports its jobs to, and imports
componentry from china? or did they simply point out that toyota
creates american jobs and buys their componentry from american
manufacturers? i doubt they said that japan is an ally and that china
is not. or that american taxpayer support of companies that export
their business and jobs to a country that completely disrespects human
rights, democracy or intellectual property is nothing short of fraud.
you're perpetrating a fraud ed. you should hang your head in shame.
I doubt Mike or anyone else outside of Toyota knows that. I am sure
some are. Toyota is definitely doing buisness in China. They have set
up several joint ventures there to manufacture parts. Here are some
If you think that Toyota isn't using Chinese suppliers, I think you
are not paying attention to what is going on in the world.
they're using chinese suppliers for the chinese market ed!!! gm is
using chinese suppliers for the american market. and thus using
taxpayer dollars to export jobs to china.
really ed, you need to grow some moral backbone, go get yourself a real
job and stop trying to pollute the media with your twisted bullshit.
And you don't think Toyota is also using Chinese suppliers for the
cars they build in America and for the cars they build in Japan and
export to America? I think you would have a hard time proving that.
I still don't understand how you can grumble about GM using Asian
suppliers (including Chinese suppliers) while at the same time
shilling for Toyota when the facts are that GM still uses a higher
percentage of domestic parts, employs more US citizens than Toyota,
and contributes much more to the US economy than Toyota. I can
understand and even agree with your complaints about out sourcing to
China. I just can't seem the logic of trashing GM for this and then
excusing Toyota for doing the same thing.
I have complained multiple times about how the US government bailed
out GM. But the facts are that the Japanese government also provided
emergency financing to Toyota and the US government has been
indirectly subsidizing Toyota through programs like cash for clunkers
and hybrid car tax rebates. You need to be fair in your criticism of
GM and recognize that they are not doing things much differently than
You need to examine the illogic of your postions.
it's not as easy as astroturfing ed - i'll give you that!
i'm not shilling for anyone ed - don't accuse me of your despicable
"facts" - you mean that "weighted" but mysteriously sourceless bullshit
you quoted earlier? yeah, those are "facts"!
really? the "old" gm only had 30k-odd americans on salary. all the
other numbers in their accounts were consolidations of various hourly
workers from various locations. but you have a access to more political
data than i.
"contributes"???????????? so sucking off the taxpayer's teat to the
tune of >$30 billion is "contributing"???
but toyota are /not/ doing the same thing ed - they're not using
american taxpayer money to export jobs to china. and they're not
ripping off the american consumer by selling them shit either.
are toyota exporting american jobs to china at the american taxpayer's
whoops - you should pass this mistake back the review/editing committee
gm has considerable manufacturing capacity in china. and it makes and
sells vehicles there for that market. but it also uses that capacity
to make things like seats, drive shafts, brakes, wiring looms, computers
and instrumentation for our market. taxpayers supporting those
operations is utterly ridiculous when millions of americans are out of work.
sadly, it doesn't. camry for instance is 80% locally sourced. that's
better than typical gm.
chinese peasants staying poor, as they have for millennia under assorted
despots and tyrants, is a damned sight more tolerable to me than
watching americans /become/ poor because their jobs have been shipped to
a country that also steals their intellectual property and money.
What percentage of these components sold in the US are made in China?
The Michigan 3 sell cars with a higher percentage of US-made components
than the import brands, although until the end of the Bush
administration, they came close.
Typical GM is around 75-80%. Typical Toyota and Honda around 55-60%.
Particular models, like the Sienna, are around 85% US-made. The numbers
are from before the end of the Bush era. After that, a lot has changed
like the closing of the NUMMI plant. Toyota may import a different
percentage of its cars than before because of different models selling
better and other economic reasons.
I disagree. You could have made the same argument for Korea 40 years
ago. Yet, S. Korea, where we important a lot from has done quite well.
N. Korea, from whom we important next to nothing is still dirt poor.
As I have pointed out to you several times, if your goal is to buy the
products with the most domestic content, then GM is who you would buy
Toyota also build vehicles and components in China, just like GM, only
You are an uber-hypocrite - protecting a foreign manufacturer while
trashing GM by complaining that they are buying some components from
China. If you want to be a free-trade advocate and say we should turn
the US car industry over to the Japanese because they are better at
it, then I can understand that point. What I can't understand is this
idea that you think it is OK to turn the US car industry over to
Toyota while blasting GM for doing exactly the same sorts of things
that Toyota does.
You should read about how Toyota treats "guest workers" or how they
exploit labor in places like Thailand. Toyota has a long history of
oppressing workers outside of the "home" factories. Toyota loves to
show you pictures of the shiny main assembly palnts in US and Japan.
They never show you pictures of the sweat shops they operate through
subsiduaries. GM just wants to get on the Toyota bandwagon.
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