OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rough idle/skip/dies)

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Actually in the troubleshooting for the P0108 code, it states that if you have a P1374 code to fix that first and see if it goes away. We replaced the MAP sensor anyway because it was relatively inexpensive, but at the end of the day it really didn't solve anything. The dealer (that reprogrammed the computer) is of the opinion it could be the harmonic balancer (aka vibration dampener) because "it's a common problem" they see in their shop. We took the thing off to replace the crank sensor on this car, and it seemed fine to me, so I doubt that's it, but of course I could be wrong. Unfortunately a new one is $70!
-GV
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etc?"
What? Who told you that. I'm looking at the factory diagnositc chart and it says nothing of the sort. You always fix the lower numbers first. ;)
Steve
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Whoops, I was wrong, that info relates to the P0101 code, which this car also was throwing at one point (not anymore) - "Using scan tool, check for stored DTCs. If DTC P1635 or P1374 is also set, diagnose that DTC first." So many codes, it gets confusing ;)
I think I also forgot to mention, that coming home from the dealer the car was acting up like crazy and the check engine light came on almost right away. Cleared the codes, drove it from my house back to the shop that 'diagnosed' it, and it only acted up a little bit and the check engine light didn't come back on, even though the shop is further away than the dealer was. I have no doubt in my mind that the code came back though, I should have brought the scantool with me and checked it once we hit the shop.
-GV
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Just wanted to update everyone on the latest in this ongoing saga. The shop that was supposed to be re-diagnosing decided to replace the harmonic balancer and now is presenting us with a repair bill. Bear in mind that NOBODY but NOBODY gave them authorization to do so, plus the fact that we already bought a new balancer and can put it on just fine ourselves in ~20 mins or so, plus the fact that the CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS STILL ON and the same codes are still present, P1374 (x 2), however they're claiming "the car runs fine." Well that may be the case, but it still starts hard and those codes are still there. This shop was paid for diagnosing a specific problem (the cause of the P1374 code) and thusfar have failed to do so. At this point I want them to undo the work they did that they were not authorized to do, we'll put the harmonic balancer on ourselves, and I want my money back in full (because their "diagnosis" has bore no fruit) and the car's going to go to the dealer, obviously whatever is wrong is obviously beyond mere mortals if it's stumped my friend, the mechanic with 27 years experience, myself, with enough common sense that we should have been able to figure this out, plus some suggestions from you guys, plus a shop that's been in business for at least 15 years. You stump those 3-4 entities, it's time to bite the bullet and take it to the real pros.
-GV
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GlassVial wrote:

It codes out at as a "3x Reference Circuit" error. Not sure what they are refering to here though     
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Believe me, we know exactly what this code means at this point :) We're intimately familiar with it. And basically what it means is, take it to the dealer. I'm basically finding that codes that start with a 0 are generic codes, ie. P0108 which is a code we were getting before on this heap. However, codes that start with a 1, ie P1374, are "manufacturer specific" and really should be taken to a dealer, and that's the point we're at.
-GV
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Hehe.
http://www.troublecodes.net/OBD2 /
Steve
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Yup, exactly what I said (from the site):
2nd digit 0 = Standard 1 = Manufacturer specific
-GV
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Took it to the new mechanic being as the old ones can't diagnose their way out of a paper bag. He found a cracked rear exhaust manifold, right away I might add! Unbelievable that the last shop that had it supposedly had 6-7 hours of diag into it and couldn't find that. Anyway, getting quoted $350 for install for a used one, or $400 for new. Does this sound reasonable? And man I sure hope this solves the problem...
-GV
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Doesn't sound too bad. The OEM manifold is about $200 and about 4-5 hours labour.
Steve
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Actually that was factoring in $70(USD) for the used part + labor, or $110 new part + labor, and yes he did say it was ~5hr job.
Is it advised to go with new over used for this part? Bear in mind we live in the rust/salt belt here :)
-GV
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I'd buy new, but that's me.
Steve
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GlassVial wrote:

Well, that's interesting... but I don't see how it would affect the crankshaft sensor, camshaft sensor, or interaction between the two...
http://www.motorage.com/motorage/article/articleDetail.jsp?id 037
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Who knows, it needs to be fixed *regardless* if it's the culprit or not, lethal exhaust vapors leaking into the cabin is not good for one's health. :)
-GV
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Hey. I have the same issue with my 3800 Pont. Bonneville. Did fixing the rear manifold finally get your auto running right??!
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Did you fix the problem
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replying to GlassVial, jeff wrote: Mass air flow sensor is the problem
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