Open letter to GM

Page 2 of 3  
The charge $65 an hour for labor.
You're saying that the book time to drop a Yukon fuel tank and replace the fuel pump is two hours? Tank was >1/2 full with gas, by the way.
Just for grins, I'll call the GMC shop on Monday and see what they charge.
George LitwinskiGeorge Litwinski "It's good to want things." S. Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist, Visual Basic.Net programmer)

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GRL wrote:

The 32 dollars for replacing the fuel filter was the tip off. This operation is usually about .5 hrs.

It might be 2.2 hrs, but it certainly is not worth 3.5 hrs which is what you got charged. This is often the stuff that makes me grin when people out in "internet" land think that the dealership labour rate is so expensive. Yes, we charge 96 dollars an hour, but we go by the book. Often the independents just seem to make it up as they go along. So you end up paying more at the "local" shop that might be 2/3 the labour rate of the dealership. I know that we routinely charge about 2.0 hrs for truck fuel tanks. They are all about the same amount of difficulty to pull, you might get a little bit more if it has a tank shield, but even they only take a few minutes to get off. As far as draining the tank, 1/2 tank is perfect, I don't drain a tank when it's at that level, there is no need, unless you don't have the proper jack to support it (which we do).
I used to get the same story when I was moonlighting in my garage years ago. People would ask me what my labour rate was....."35 dollars an hour"......what?...I know a guy that works for 15 dollars an hour, and he's only going to charge me 200 dollars for the job. Right......and I'm only going to charge you 140 dollars because the job is only worth 4 hrs of labour. It happens all the time....labour rate is not always the best indicator of who is ripping who off.

It'll be interesting, though there is no guarantee that they won't try to do the same thing. It happens in the dealerships too, it even happens from tech to tech in the same shop. You will get one guy that charges some outrageous amount for work being done, but it doesn't last long. The funny thing is that they believe they are some sort of "productivity" god, when all they are doing is charging double the labour for the same work. They aren't doing anything any faster.
Ian
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    With 25,000 miles... the dealer should've goodwilled it.
GRL wrote:

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wrote:

Welcome to the new spirit of GM dealers... Where you're screwed.
Here in the Seattle area I looked at a caddy being driven by a woman and she put two signs in the car that read; "If you are thinking of buying a Cadillac from Bellevue Cadillac call me FIRST" and gave her number.
I didn't need to call to know what she had to say. They're thieving scum. I'd dealt with them before.
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George,
You and I came to the same conclusion in a different way. In my 30 years of driving, until Sept 2003, I had always bought GM products. Never again.
Things break and wear out too soon. Stupid things. Alternator bearings, door hinge pins, heater control heads, intake manifold gaskets, fuel pumps/ tank sending units. The list is long. Poorly engineered parts, poorly built cars and trucks. In Sept of 03 I bought my first foreign car. A used 1999 Toyota Camry, with 63,000 on the clock. Nice little car. Drove it around for a year, no rattles, lots of pep, nothing to fix, very happy with it. Liked it so well that my wife bought a new 04 Toyota Sienna mini van. Very nice, comfortable, love it so far. Liked the other cars so well that I bought for myself a new Toyota Tundra Double Cab.So far love that too. The Tundra is only rated to tow 7000 lbs so If I really needed to haul anything really heavy I would need to buy something from the "Big Three". But for me it is not a problem.
I am hoping that I finally found a car company that takes pride in what they build. Time will tell, I'll know within a 100k miles.
Chuck in Phoenix
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After years of buying Japanese cars, in </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>2000 I buy a $40,000 GMC Yukon XL, thinking GM quality had improved.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Today at 25,000 miles (</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>4-1/3 years old) the f</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>uel pump failed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The cost to repair: $730.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This is the first time I've ever had a fuel pump fail. My Japanese cars all had at least 100,000 miles on them before being sold.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I see no excuse for such an early failure of this expensive part.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I guess the next vehicle will not be another GM no matter how sweet the rebate.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><I><FONT face="Rage Italic LET" color=#0000ff size=6> <P>George Litwinski</P></I></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT><I><FONT face=Tahoma color=#ff0000 size=5> <P>"It’s good to want things."</P></I></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma> <P></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>S. Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist, Visual Basic.Net programmer) </P></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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well did you have the job done at the dealership? part of the problem i
really that it is a labor intensive job for intank pumps... ( i a assuming it is an intank one as some vehicles have 2 pumps ) but agree at that mileage the repair should have been good willed. its sa to see gm become so poor in quality , ive been buying gm products sinc my first car ( a 76 pontiac ventura ) , but i dont like what i a seeing , and gm is having HUGE problems in europe because of poo quality compared to european vehicles. ( i think they are laying of 22000 over there ... and i read that they are going to close plant here state side as well )
but this isnt new , this happened in the 80's , sales were slumping quality was poor in american cars .... then when ragan removed th tarifs on japaneese cars , they took a beating until they improved th quality... maybe this is just the same cycle all over again
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This vehicle was built and sold in 2000. In 2000 the Yukon/Suburban were new and in short supply. GM was NOT offering incentives. They didn't have to. They should have specified good quality parts. They didn't.
That's the problem. In a market like today, I shudder to think how low they will allow their suppliers to go in terms of parts quality to save a few cents.
George Litwinski
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GRL wrote:

Thats not the norm though. I had to replace my last fuel pump at 150k and that was only because the bottom of the tank rusted out.
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wrote:

Don't look for much sympathy here. This is a NG full of GM sheep. No matter what they love and dryhump their GM cars - no matter how much of a lemon it turns into.
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To say the least I have been a GM man for many years buying only their products. I still own a 350 block that I swear by, however the new gm does differ from the old. Its another corporation that's looked for ways of cutting costs by buying cheaper parts and I think its backfiring on them presently. My new 2003 astro cargo van is plagued with problems and the dealer here in the falls is like the rest I'm hearing about here. Too little too late too bad. GM will pay for this in years to come I'm sure. The 1-800 number you call when unsatisfied started out for me as a very friendly contact that seemed to be going somewhere. Plans were made and they listened to my concerns with a more than concerned ear. Once in the hands of the service manager it quickly changed and I was brushed over with another ITS FIXED! given a hand shake and a boot in the ass out the door realizing the problems still remained once driving the vehicle. Smoke and mirrors was the answer and to this day remain saddened by the whole experience, warranties over. I drive over 60k per year. Problem is for my needs nothing does the job like the astro cargo van. BTW I should have rebuilt my 92.

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| | To say the least I have been a GM man for many | years buying only their products.
I took a 25+ year hiatis from GM and came back in 2003. (The last GM I owned GM was a 1967 GTO, but come from a several generation GM-only family on both sides. I was extremely EXTREMELY dissapointed with the 2003 Malibu LS I bought as well. I didn't even keep the car a year and was happy to take a $6-7K hit selling it to CarMax just to get rid of it. I haven't looked back.
| I still own a 350 block that I swear by, however the new | gm does differ from the old.
Seems so to me as well.
| Its another corporation that's looked for ways of | cutting costs by buying cheaper parts and I think | its backfiring on them presently.
I think the problem is much more pervasive. Treatment of the customer is extremely poor as well (compared to my experience with competitors). To GM, the customer is always wrong. They have it backwards.
| My new 2003 astro cargo van is plagued with | problems and the dealer here in the falls is | like the rest I'm hearing about here.
Not surprised. Your testomony reinforces my previous point.
| Too little too late too bad. GM will pay for this in | years to come I'm sure.
Unfortunatelly you are probably right. No one there in the management ranks seems to actually care.
| The 1-800 number you call when unsatisfied started | out for me as a very friendly contact that seemed to | be going somewhere. Plans were made and they | listened to my concerns with a more than concerned | ear.
Better treatment than I got from the 1-800 approach.
| Once in the hands of the service manager it quickly | changed and I was brushed over with another | ITS FIXED! given a hand shake and a boot in the | ass out the door realizing the problems still | remained once driving the vehicle.
Actually, the dealer was more sympathetic than GM corporate was in my case.
| Smoke and mirrors was the answer and to this day | remain saddened by the whole experience,
Me too... I wonder how many people like us will come back. And for those that do, how many years will it take?
| warranties over. I drive over 60k per year. Problem is | for my needs nothing does the job like the astro cargo | van. BTW I should have rebuilt my 92.
No mandatory or annoying DRLs and "auto" headlights on your 92 either! One of my pet-peeves.
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Love those auto headlights!

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| Love those auto headlights! | |
Not going there! ;-)
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Lanze wrote: love those auto headlights.
James replied : Not going there !
Christ - I hope nobody goes there !
========Harryface ======== 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~295,726 miles_~_~_
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~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan
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On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 17:32:25 -0500, "James C. Reeves"
lol!!!
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ah yes the good old days when things were simple , and replacement part
were cheap ~laughs~ but now when things are designed to fail on a fairl regular schedule , you cant have things like reliability ~laughs
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On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:07:19 -0800, penumbral_shadow

Oh yes, bring me back to the days of Bias belted tires blowing out, points constantly out of adjustment, sticking carburetor plates, 13 mpg, fading drum brakes, wipers with no intermittent, AM mono radios 4 year bio-degradeable bodies, mechanical cooling fans, holding on for dear life at 130 MPH, etc, etc, etc.
Oh "the good old days" please... The crap GM is making now is 100x better than the crap they were making 30 years ago. Might not be as good a new Mercedes or Lexus but more than good enough to keep me satisfied.
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Actually, it's better than Mercedes. You want REAL anger and frustration, buy a Merc. GM is a bit player in terms of mediocre product quality in comparison with Merc.
My dream is that Toyota takes over or at least gets a major interest in GM and makes GM clean up its act. It would not take a lot of effort. Some house-cleaning at the top and mass firings of the damn bean-counters who run things at GM. They screw a customer by allowing a junk part to be used to shave a few cents on their cost. And they lose the customer. Not clever enough to think a few years own the line. Probably hoping for a nice retirement package by then.
George Litwinski
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penumbral_shadow wrote:

Yes well, that's the price you pay when you're driving what would otherwise be a gross polluter. :)
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The good ol' days.........like in the Great Depression, when an Okie could nurse a Model T with his household belongings strapped to the chassis across the Mohave Desert into California to pick apples. Ever see a Model T engine up close? Simple to the point of existentialism. All ya need to fix it is some bailing wire and some river water when she boils over going up the grades.
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